Since you're "not sure what to make of this column," I'll attempt to summarize its theme: some people refuse to believe that Islamic extremists committed a genocidal attack on Jews in Israel on October 7th - an assault that included mass murder, mutilation, rape, and abduction, most of which was livestreamed, photographed and video-recor…
Since you're "not sure what to make of this column," I'll attempt to summarize its theme: some people refuse to believe that Islamic extremists committed a genocidal attack on Jews in Israel on October 7th - an assault that included mass murder, mutilation, rape, and abduction, most of which was livestreamed, photographed and video-recorded by the perpetrators, and which was widely celebrated throughout the Muslim world as a joyous event. Because some people refuse to believe this - despite the fact that the organization responsible for it has not only taken full responsibility but promised to do it again - those same people choose to blame Jews instead.
Alex you left out some crucial facts - why did the IDF stand down for seven hours? Why was the concert moved? Why did they refuse to believe the spotters who informed them for weeks, Hamas was training? How did all the cars get completely burnt at the concert and why did Israel then bury all the evidence, claiming it was for environmental purposes?
How come there were never any rapes reports filed with the police and or positive rape kits? How come over one million Israel's have since emigrated to Europe to the USA and are not returning? Do you think it "might" have anything to do with witnessing your own government slaughter it's own military and citizens? Just imagine rushing to defend your Country on 10-07 and then, being murdered by them instead? The only thing you did neglect to mention were the beheaded babies which I assume you also saw the photographs of?
You raise valid points BJ. The fact that Hamas was able to breach the border, the concert being moved, and the military not responding for 6 to 7 hours do raise a lot of questions. This situation in Israel is complex and confusing. Too complex for my little brain. I’m gonna stay out of it. I’ve tried understanding. I’m hoping someone below answers my question about what is Zionism. I need the basics. 😉
The confusion in Israel, Ukraine, and many other places around the world is engineered. The motto of Mossad is, "By way of deception, thou shalt do war." They've been practicing this for decades and now are proficient in the means and ways, including the infiltration of govt, media, and the creation of Hollywood (druid wands) as "entertainment". You can look up the King David Hotel bombing and the USS Liberty for documented examples of this devious tactic.
To understand Zionism, I would suggest looking into the connections between Theodore Herzl, Arthur Balfour, Lord Acton, and Walter Rothschild for starters. The basic concept is that Khazarian (Ukraine, Turkey) "Jews" are due an ethnostate called Israel located in Palestine. This is based on their interpretation of the Torah and their Babylonian Talmud which is a very telling read.
None of those are facts. There are some legitimate questions - such as why the Israeli government ignored intelligence about the planned attack, and why the military response took so long - but others are pure nonsense. Nowhere close to a million Israelis have emigrated since the attack, and you can't do a rape kit on a burned corpse. Even the UN, which hates Israel, had to admit that Hamas engaged in mass rape and murder. https://www.nbcnews.com/investigations/un-finds-clear-convincing-information-hostages-raped-gaza-rcna141789
I will not waste my time having this conversation with you. If you had done your research you would've known Israel published the information about burying the cars That's just one of many facts you know nothing about.
Nice try. I've been following this story extremely closely since the day it happened. The decision to bury cars was based on Jewish tradition regarding respect for the dead. You're right though, this conversation would be a waste of time because you've already decided to blame the Jews. Maybe when the jihadists come to cut your head off and rape the women in your family, you'll realize you were wrong about who your enemy is.
We've have all been following this story from Day One. But the difference between you and the rest of us is that we do the extensive investigating in search of irrefutable facts and pay no attention whatsoever to mainstream media. NBC you can't possibly be serious?
I myself happened to be retired and live alone. I spend at least 12 hours/day reading, if not more. I don't own a TV nor a cell phone. I read the comment section of everything I read where you can often uncover even greater information which we all then pass on to each other.
For the record the last thing any of us are is close minded. We also discuss in great an enormous length what we believe to be fact from fiction. Uncovering the truth today is almost but thankfully not yet, impossible. I am grateful to all the great people on Substack that I have met who also spend as much time doing the extensive research.
Here's the problem: your decision of which facts are "irrefutable" is based on your existing biases. As just one example, your assertion that a million Israelis have left Israel is categorically false, yet you accepted and parroted it for some reason. Furthermore, the degree to which you weigh those "facts" is relative to all the information that you either dismiss or ignore. In this case, you and your pals on the comment section here are laser-focused on anything that suggests Israeli action may have contributed to the death toll on 10/7, while seemingly overlooking the vast mountain of evidence that the "Al-Aqsa Flood" was just one more attack by Islamists against non-Muslims, much like the countless such attacks perpetrated against Jews over the last 1,400 years, and the ones routinely perpetrated against Christians (and even moderate Muslims) in Nigeria, Sudan, and elsewhere in Africa.
Al-Aqsa Flood was not "just one more attack by Islamists against Muslins", as you write, Alex Fox. This attack was retaliation for many years of apartheid rule in Israel and a way to let the rest of the world know about the violent and illegal suppression by Israel of Arabs in the occupied territories. Palestinians have the right to defend themselves against IDF, which is an occupying force. By killing Israelis, Israel has become a pariah in the world, and with good reason.
I have never been disrespectful on Substack but you are really pushing it. As of December 2023 TWO MONTHS after OCTOBER 2023 nearly 1/2 million people have fled Israel. DO THE MATH! In 2 MONTHS nearly 1/2 million people left.
It's now been an additional seven months with Hezbollah bombing the hell out of the north and war throughout the Middle East looming with every passing day. Why in Gods name would anyone remain IN Israel given the fact a million Israel's also hold dual citizenship?
Furthermore they recently lifted the draft exemption for all ultra Orthodox Jews of which there are roughly 1.3 million. Chief Sephardic Rabbi Yitzhak Yosef stated: "ultra-Orthodox Jews will leave Israel en masse if the government ends exemptions of mandatory military enlistment enjoyed by the community."
Again do the math or better yet, try and get a flight OUT OF Israel to Europe or the USA!
Because of everything the economy is also in shambles which has also lead to everyone leaving. Israel is attempting to engage in war on seven fronts - no one is going to remain
“vast mountain of evidence that the ‘Al-Aqsa Flood’ was just one more attack by Islamists against non-Muslims, much like the countless such attacks perpetrated against Jews over the last 1,400 years, and the ones routinely perpetrated against Christians (and even moderate Muslims) in Nigeria, Sudan, and elsewhere in Africa.”
Is any of that mountain other than highly circumstantial?
Alex! Here's some more news for you! But those of us who actually do thorough and extensive research rather than simply spew the vile propaganda mainstream belches out, knew about ALL of this back in October right after it happened.
I like the one about Hamas flying hanggliders over the wall to drop bombs! Like they wouldn't have been blown out of the sky 1000 feet before they reached the wall. Reminds me of some of the good fables from WW2.
And did you see the cars the Hamas "rockets" hit? They were melted down to their frames. Looked like the cars and trucks 1/2 mile away from "ground zero" on 911.
Hamas used Kamikaze drones to knock out surveillance so that they could get the powered paragliders across the fence. Incidentally, the exact same tactic would work against any US military base.
I fer one am not doubtin' that the swamp in Israel "at best" stood down for many hours--but a select set of self-destructive tyrants (BBGun is one--he did not "act alone!") doesn't characterize an entire country or its history--many "chews" here an' in "Oh Israel" are VERY concerned 'bout what went down that day an' are not remotely happy about how their gubbamint is actin' in "their" name (sound familiar?)--BUT even just b/c one group of 3 IDF soldiers follerin' the command of General Hiram--who seemed a little messed up--brutal even--came out about the tank fire ("friendly fire"--not) killin' 13 people in ONE Kibbutz (Bari) doesn't mean this was a full set up an' the IDF went out an wasted joos on command.
Lotta questions--agreed--but imho, CJ's just not buyin' the wholesale stories (such as "Israel faked it--nobuddy died or was raped or taken hostage" or "Israel an' Hamas did this together b/c Israel controls Hamas fully..." or other malarkey. )
One bad apple (a few?) don't spoil the whole bunch... there are many (most) IDF soldiers who are decent humans an' do not wanna do anything but defend their country. What some higher-ups did--was not right--an' there have been IDF soldiers of conscience speakin' up. I say bless'em AND I sez "yas yas yas" to an investigation--an' no (no no) to the wholesale blamin' of the joos and/or callin' us all "killers"--
I can't speak for Alex to whom you responded but imho I think he's comin' from a similar camp that we can look inta some sketchy stuff but not go off wholesale blamin' an' finger pointin'. What happened was a tragedy--most have abandoned that idea--also wholesale. Folks have already taken sides an' fully drawn their conclusions with only sketchy proof... jus' sayin' what I know...
Why? that is why. The first "hamas suicide bombing" happened 40 days after Baruch Goldstein massacred 29 praying Palestinians at Ibrahimi Mosque in Nablus. 40 days is a traditional mourning period. Zionists keep pretending that "hamas" did it just because they "hate Jews" and "what monsters would target civilians on purpose".
Such is every made-up story of "unprovoked hamas terrorism".
Israel first commits a mass-murder or a massive attack on Palestinian civilians (like Goldstein and like the beating and killing of Al-Aqsa worshipers in 2023 and mass-taking of Palestinian hostages (several thousands, not a few), to made Resistance to respond and then claim "Hamas attack". Why? Because they wanted to have Gaza for themselves already. The October 7 (not that date, but that deliberately provoked response by the Resistance) was the needed "atrocity" to manufacture international support for plain and simple Final Solution to make Gaza "a land without people". Jonathan Ofir, Israeli anti-Zionist: "Israeli think tank lays out a blueprint for the complete ethnic cleansing of Gaza
An Israeli think tank with ties to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu issued a report on October 17 promoting the "unique and rare opportunity" for the “relocation and final settlement of the entire Gaza population. The Hamas attack on Israeli towns surrounding Gaza on October 7 has provided a pretext for an unprecedented, genocidal revenge campaign by Israel involving the massacre of now nearly 5,000 Palestinians, including over 2,000 children – and that may only be the beginning. Now, an Israeli think tank with ties to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is promoting plans for the complete ethnic cleansing of Gaza. " - https://mondoweiss.net/2023/10/israeli-think-tank-lays-out-a-blueprint-for-the-complete-ethnic-cleansing-of-gaza/
Nonsense. As many have said, when a lie gets repeated enough, it becomes Israel. When did you personally decide you couldn't publicly defend the beheaded babies libel? Good for you for wising up, I guess. (Btw, I've heard that half a million Israelis have left, a still hefty number.)
Still no response from the author and his followers? Proof that they themselves know that the content of the article is pure bullshit that does not worth defending.
Clear false flag operation and stand down order (published by Haaretz) to keep Net and Yahoo! in power and finalize their 75 year land grab. This has been mainstream for six months now. Ignorance of this is a choice at this point.
Always amazing to me that people prefer to believe in shadowy conspiracy theories about Jews, rather than listen to what Islamic extremists have been publicly saying, publishing, and broadcasting for the last 100 years. You don't have to like Israel or Jews, but if you think Hamas or the ideology they represent are the good guys in ANY equation, you are very sadly mistaken.
I published that Oct 8th. The day after. I knew what it was from the start because I don't watch CNN and don't belive what governments tell me and didn't start paying attention to all this yesterday. Who funds Hamas? Who is on record saying they need to keep funding Hamas? Who formed Hamas to undermine the PLO and two state solution? Who removed soldiers from that portion of the fence the week before and sent them to the west bank? Cui Bono from the false flag? How? All governments derive their power from enemies. If they can't find them, they create them and manufacture them and will not hesitate to sacrifice their own people in the process. This is all well documented Alex. You can choose to ignore it and whine about "conspiracy theories" but don't expect honest people who care about truth to respect you for it.
So you jumped to an immediate conclusion with zero evidence, based on your existing biases, and now you cherry pick whatever you can find to support your predetermined conclusion. But you say you "care about the truth." Got it.
If you care about the truth, look into the actual history of Hamas. Yes, Netanyahu had an ill-advised policy of supporting Hamas in order to keep the Arab factions divided. But by no stretch of the imagination did Israel create Hamas. It was a direct offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood, which was founded in the 1920s, when "Palestine" - including the modern state of Jordan - was still a British colony.
Hamas along with the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) is and was resistance fighters...fighting an apartheid regime that is brutal, sadistic, and bent on the genocide of the Palestinian people...are they being abused and used, probably...what fighting machine isn't used and abused by the Globalist. The fact that ethnic cleansing is happening should haunt all of us for we are in the middle of a culling.
"So you jumped to an immediate conclusion with zero evidence, based on your existing biases..." Good description of the allegations of rape and mutilation by Hamas. (If those things had actually happened the world would have been subjected to 24/7 replay of it for 9 months now.) Israelis have been presumed to be noble and truthful and eternal victims since 1948; that people are finally questioning that narrative is sticking in many a craw at the moment. It must be especially galling that so many Jewish people are out there protesting the barbaric behavior of the Israelis and their Apartheid system. You can keep on gaslighting but, with all due respect to PT Barnum, it seems that since October 7th there is one less sucker every minute of this genocide.
"So you jumped to an immediate conclusion with zero evidence, based on your existing biases..." Good description of the allegations of rape and mutilation by Hamas.
Good description of the allegation that Osama bin Laden committed 9/11 too, another event which CJ (an author I previously respected) apparently believes happened precisely as we have been told.
Wow. You're actually denying that Hamas terrorists raped and mutilated their victims on October 7? I guess if the extensive first-hand testimony, photographic and video evidence, coroner's reports, and even the conclusion of an investigation by the notoriously anti-Israel United Nations didn't convince you, nothing I could say would possibly make a difference.
And here you have it: apologists for Israel invoke horrific acts supposedly committed by Hamas but go silent when asked for proof. They expect everyone to be cowed by their wild, unfounded statements (and, presumably, the threat of being called "anti-semitic" for questioning Zionist BS), so they keep throwing out there whatever the hell they want, no matter how debunked. I get it though, what with genocide being so hard to defend. Must be hard to hold a position so minority that literally millions of people around the world take to the streets to denounce it. Why they can't bring themselves to finally come over to the side of truth and decency is beyond me.
Always amazing to me that so many people who comment on Israel and Hamas don’t know that Hamas was created by Israel, and is still run by Israel. Yes, many or perhaps most of the Hamas fighters are Muslims who hate Jews and Israel, but they are just clueless useful idiots who are unknowingly working for Israel while thinking they are attacking Israel. Just ask yourself who benefitted from the 10/7 attack. Certainly not the 130,000 dead Palestinians, many of whom were children.
Technicality: Hamas was not created by Israel, but yes funded by Israel. Back in 1987 BEFORE Hamas was a terrorist org., Israel made the totally butt-headed tactical error of fundin' Hamas thinkin' it would be a clever move to split up the potentially united "Palestinian" front--b/c Hamas was a religious-not-political group (they wanted ta kill the joos but not "for territory"--just on "religious grounds") -- an' again, at the time Hamas had not been terrorist. Thus Israel thought it was a safer "bet"--better than fundin' the PLO (which was political in aim AND territorial)
Boy golly were they wrong---an' I'll add that however fatal an' dumb a decision that was--Israel didn't actually create Hamas (or Isis fer that matter either--folks are sayin' Israel created "them all"...) So yup, it's amazing that some folks think Israel created Hamas an' don't know the backstory (embarrassin' as it is...with fatal results).
You have your shoes on the wrong feet...Israel is a terrorist organization...Hamas is a rag tag band of resistance fighters fighting for their homeland...
What you wrote looks like a prime example of a limited hangout.
“Article 31 Describes Hamas as ‘a humanistic movement’, which ‘takes care of human rights and is guided by Islamic tolerance when dealing with the followers of other religions’. ‘Under the wing of Islam’, it is possible for Islam, Christianity and Judaism ‘to coexist in peace and quiet with each other’ provided that members of other religions do not dispute the sovereignty of Islam in the region.” [1]
Oh, well, it's alright then. As long as non-Muslims "do not dispute the sovereignty of Islam in the region," accept their dhimmi status and pay the jizaya tax, then peace reigns supreme! Unless, of course, you want human rights of any kind.
The fact that some people hate Jews so much that they are willing to become apologists for Islamic extremism still surprises me. I don't know why though ... When queer, purple-haired college girls in the USA are cheering for Iran, where women are tortured and killed for going outside with their hair uncovered, it's clear that reality has no bearing on people's opinions.
You have, there, read a helluva lot into the short clause you quoted.
I would certainly not endorse triumphalism, but, should a mass of people choose to associate themselves into a state with an explicit, religious, theme, I would have no in-principle objection. I would not be one of them, but tastes differ. (Interestingly, the current State of Israel was, as I understand it, created as a declaredly Jewish entity, though “Jewish” not in the religious sense, but in the alternative, nebulous, one, which, as far as I can make out, encompasses things such as sharing a sense of humour with Allan Stewart Konigsberg.)
At least as strongly as I would support the right to form a religious state, I would support the secession right of a religious (or atheist/agnostic) minority. It is all a matter of the much neglected, fundamental, right of freedom of association.
lol--just peeked in (yup, cain't resist) an' saw ya mentioned the Dhimmi's too! an' yup, it's kinda wacky when the LGBTQ++pi-infinity-furries with farfel crowd are cheerin' on their grim reapers (they like ta throw the boys off buildin's--Clark Kent wouldn't make it in time ta save 'em either!)
Nope, I ain't a hangout (that's kinda funny--nobuddy in their right mind'd find a crackpot performin' ahrtiste like myself ta be a ltd. hangout--not even a "spy")--but laffs aside... IMHO an' backed by a lotta text I've read--the intent of radical Islam (Sharia law) is to kill all the joos--in fact there's a reward's program Hamas offers! (Everyone loves a reward, no?) For every jew killed (via jihad or otherwise) the fambly is set fer life, paid! handsomely! An' the young fella is rewarded in heaven with blessin's an' all the whores in the harem he would ever want--Paradise! It's such a fab program (I only WISH I wuz kiddin') that in fact that's the only $$$ they'll see ever from Hamas -- a corrupt org. that pockets the rest so they can live the high life in Quatar.
Now ya don't have ta believe me one bit (since ya asked, tho, DO look at the links below an' learn from folks that are well-scholared in these matters)--
An' I'll fully AGREE That joos can purdy much live in peace with Christians an' have (with the occasional rift or crusade... ta put it mildly)--done so for a long long time--certainly with success in more modern times. But see here, Jesus never told his followers ta kill all the joos. So if ya like the lahdeedah of everyone livin' together in one nice bus like the Partridge Fambly--I'd say that's California Dreamin'! MANY Muslims ain't radical an' not all even hate joos--as a New Yawker I've certainly encountered that--but even the small percentage that wanna take their scripture literally--come out ta be HUGE numbers.
So here's some homework fer ya--fwiw...
1. The BEST historian on the matter if ya don't wanna go readin' books is this Professor--not even a chew--who 'splains it all:
(gotta scroll down to the early stuff an' work yer way thru it chronologically)
2. Also--if ya wanna hear more 'bout what the great Gad Saad calls "the Noble Race" that's "so" humanitarian an' so happy to live in peace with the chews, then DO take a look at this fella's great work--Robert Spencer--also not a "chew"... but he's studied Islam in depth for decades:
3. Fwiw Gad, mentioned above, is fluent in Arabic an' had ta flee Lebanon at age 11... he covers a lotta ground over many talks an' interviews... I recommend him too as not only a warm, funny human but as a brilliant professor who LIVED the so-called "peaceful sharin' of space" you speak of...
4. An' as far as the ladies go--b/c some've us ladies don't wanna wear hijabs an' be part of the bee-u-tee-ful Caliphate--I'll recommend the many essays on this by Karen Hunt Mezek who shares the experiences an' words of many women who left Islamic nations due to brutal an' harsh treatment...
Search her archive under "Iran"... see what ya find...it's all good stuff...
5. Last but not least, do a little research on the Dhimmi status for "choos"under Islam - it's kinda like a pogrom--they just had ta pay more taxes, couldn't own land, couldn't ride horses (only donkeys)... not fun! This is the so-called "peaceful" times when everyone got along...
('fore I knew better I used ta think 2 state solution was the "best" solution but given a lotta history--an' 5 compromises/treaties refused by the Arabs over time...I do not believe that's remotely possible...)
no worries if yer not interested in readin' the above either--just sharin' in case ya are genuinely curious where I'm gettin' my notions that Hamas is not REMOTELY the "humanistic movement" ya state it is... (fine ta agree ta disagree too!)
You don't have to know you're a limited hangout to be one. Ones who know they are hangouts are called agents. Ones who don't are assets. Assets are usually much more convincing than agents - so they are, in general, preferred.
Thank you for the links, and, more so, for your abstracts.
I doubt you will be surprised, but possibly disappointed, to hear that I’ve not followed any of the links.
From your summaries, you appear to have been reviewing studies of an ideology.
My quick thought, which might not survive scrutiny, is that ideology is too nebulous to admit serious study, but, leaving this aside, I am extremely doubtful of the relevance of scholarly analysis of an ideology to relationships amongst actual individuals.
I am not denying that heavy indoctrination can set someone upon a diabolical course of conduct, but this only argues against the specific ideology, and bears upon treatment plans for the affected individual, following his diagnosis. It does not empower, or enable, us to make decisions about unexamined millions of people with whom we have associated the ideology.
I see fixation upon any alien ideology as dangerous. It is too easy to project a, subjectively, abhorrent ideology upon some segment of humanity, to dehumanising effect, and we don’t really need to remind ourselves of to what dehumanisation can lead.
Perhaps you would like to challenge me on that. What is your proposal for a people you deem steeped in a malevolent ideology? Extermination? Indefinite detention in a de-indoctrination camp, as to which the Chinese authorities subject the Uyghurs?
So, that, all, I’m afraid, looks to be digression. Getting back to the topic:
I did not “state” that Hamas is a “humanistic movement”. That was simply the contention of some evidence I furnished.
It was secondary evidence, which I have not believed to require verification, but its inference is of that being how “Hamas” defines itself, which, really, ought to be determinative of what “Hamas” is (and superior, for example, to what some person, who claims association with Hamas, says of it). Hamas, I think it is fair to say, is a notably shadowy organisation, and, therefore, if anything, more nebulous than, say, the Grand Old Party, or the Democratic Party. Hence, I am dubious of any asserted knowledge of the true essence of it.
Your claims, above [1], were, roughly:
1) That Hamas was not created by the Israeli regime.
2) That Hamas intended a religious genocide of Jewish people.
3) That ISIS was not created by the Israeli regime.
For evidence I asked, but of evidence came there none.
Your abstracts sketched a background that would make your claims less fantastical ( = more easily believed), but this is not evidence (unless you stretch the notion of “circumstantial” beyond breaking point).
OK - what is *your* proposal for a people you deem steeped in a malevolent ideology?
What, for example, would you have done about the thugees - a small Indian sect who believed they were under instruction from their God to roam the roads in India and rob and murder other travelers. They brought their children up with this religion and all adhered to it strictly?
As an aside, it is from this sect we derive the word "thug".
Well border security works if the group in question is geographically located somewhere else.
But the thugees lived amongst the people they preyed on. They were not a nation, and didn't live in another, different place separated by a border.
If a religion (cult, gang, whatever) inodctrinates its recruits to attack people who are not in their group, should we (whoever we are) permit that religion? And if we don't permit it (using violence to enforce the ban), then are we in fact just such a dangerous group (gang, cult, religion etc.) ourselves?
I think you are probably correct that borders are the only way to deal with this, but then what do you do when you have people from two groups with incompatible belief systems already intemingled? Must you deport all the members of one of the groups?
It's all a terrible mess - and one reason that multiculturalism is an evil idea. People with incompatible moral codes cannot live together without constant conflict.
"To a certain degree, the Islamist organization whose militant wing has rained rockets on Israel the past few weeks has the Jewish state to thank for its existence. Hamas launched in 1988 in Gaza … But for more than a decade prior, Israeli authorities actively enabled its rise." [2]
"Most of the time, Israeli policy was to treat the Palestinian Authority as a burden and Hamas as an asset. Far-right MK Bezalel Smotrich, now the finance minister in the hardline government and leader of the Religious Zionism party, said so himself in 2015.
According to various reports, Netanyahu made a similar point at a Likud faction meeting in early 2018, when he was quoted as saying that those who oppose a Palestinian state should support the transfer of funds to Gaza, because maintaining the separation between the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza would prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state." [3]
I doubt it’s unduly speculative to imagine people being nonplussed at being reduced to untermenschen in their own land, nor that this might darken their disposition towards their conquerors and those who maintain the oppression. We ought not, though, presume an especially high instance of blind hatreds of entire, generalised, groups being engendered.
as the now peecee Jane Fonda once said (likely her most articulate quote!): "feel the burn"-- Poor CJ got a little singed an' I'm sure there'll be a lot more coals tossed on the fire... The rest of us need Kevlar gatkehs!
ps I hope this comment doesn't come off wrong--when I said he got singed--I'm sad--he bravely did his satire thing which of COURSE has a lotta truth in it--all good satire DOES-- an' folks got out their bic lighters... he did not deserve it... no writer should git this--I mean "poor" genuinely--I feel bad for 'im--some of us are used ta feelin' this burn all the time... just sayin'... (ps fer those not up on their yankee yiddish--gatkehs are long johns an' kevlar is fireproof fabric!)
My issue with this is that the only people who are genuinely advocating that Zionism does not equate to Judaism are "10/7 Truthers".
While the pro-Israel camp seemingly does everything it can -- even through shockingly successful attempts to ratify into law this absurd false equivalence -- to equate Zionism to Judaism (and vice versa, of course).
The false equivalence is the root of so many problems, and it actually makes a lot of sense that the Israel lobby is pushing for this false equivalence because it would create anti-Semitism, by default. Why else would they be spending millions on turning the equivalence into legislative reality in the US?
If people give up on nuance, of course the prevalence of critical thinkers is going to recede. Extremist and polarized perspectives will take their place, but I personally do not see how Aaron Mate is contributing to this issue -- and I certainly do not see how his perspective is extremist or polarized.
I listen to a lot of perspectives, especially on the subject of Israel ever since October 7th. While I also seek to preserve nuance and critical analysis, I do not believe that Hopkins' manner of addressing the discourse in this post contributes positively to that cause.
Valid points. It's Israel itself that -- overtly -- equates the two. Leading to anti-Semitism (another misnomer as there are many "brands" of Semites) by default.
If "anti-Zionists" weren't harassing and attacking random Jews on the street and on college campuses, your argument would be more persuasive. In modern parlance, "Zionist" is 100% a synonym for "Jew." As for lobbying ... Israel barely cracks the top 10 in terms of money spent to curry favor with US lawmakers. China spends over twice as much money lobbying the US government, and Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and United Arab Emirates all outspend Israel. From Israel's point of view, it would be suicidal to allow their enemies to lobby while they did nothing.
Alex Fox: "harassing and attacking random Jews on the street and on college campuses" - oh, you mean using words to tell people that they have got the world wrong is now "harassing and attacking"?
If words are violence, what do you then call the actual killing of tens of thousands of Palestinians?
I am afraid you are fighting for a lost cause. The world has turned it's back to Israel, and rightly so.
No - Zionism does NOT equal Judaism. Many proud Jewish people, secular and religious (including many in the Rabbinical community) are staunchly anti-Zionist.
Look into Rabbi Dovid Feldman, or Miko Peled, or Max Blumenthal.
It goes back to the Scofield (sp?) Bible which misinformed the Evangelical movement in the US, and the massive evangelical Zionist, churches in the US with their dubious funding.
If there is an argument I was making, it revolves around the false equivalence that I repeatedly addressed. But then what is your counter-argument? "No, Zionism equates to Judaism because of 'modern parlance'?
I reject the assertion that Zionism = Judaism. That appears to be the root of many issues, especially in socio-political discourse. If you actually object to this false equivalence, since you see it in "modern parlance", you would reject it too.
Also it isn't about the amount of money spent on lobbying (but those stats are certainly interesting so I appreciate you sharing those). It's about the actual legislative power the lobby holds. Which you'd know about if you had read these articles or any other literature that documents the power of the Israel lobby.
The touted equivalence is usually with Jewishness, not with Judaism.
Here’s a guy [1] who professes to perceive equivalence:
“I am a Jew; therefore, I am a Zionist. Attack me as a Zionist, you attack me as a Jew. I write this not to insulate Israel from criticism but to assert the centrality of a Jewish state to my Jewish identity. … I will loudly proclaim my Jewishness and my Zionism, both of which are inseparable from each other, and from my progressive values.”
His working definition is:
“Zionism is Jewish self-determination, and independence from the authority and yoke of regimes that mostly tried to annihilate Jews for millennia. Zionism is the right and the necessity of the Jewish people to survive, and it is the need for a Jewish state to ensure that very survival.”
I really cannot see what logic he followed to achieve his conclusion that being Jewish is identical to being an advocate of “Jewish self-determination”, etc., and it actually looks that he’s fallen into an infinite recursion.
Nevertheless, taking his Zionism definition, being anti-Zionist clearly would be hostile to Jewish people (which many would then want to call “anti-semitic”).
So, the clarity that is often missing is that the thing to which billions of people are objecting is, strictly, “Palestine Invasional Zionism”. I can see, of course, why this is invariably shortened to “Zionism”; the current, variously recognised, State of Israel is the only place, since Biblical times, where most of us are aware of “Jewish self-determination” having been pursued. When Berger (as quoted above) refers to “a Jewish state”, it is the only extant place that is brought to our minds.
That's a good amendment; Jewishness is more accurate than Judaism for this phenomenon. It's more all-encompassing for describing the "Jewish identity" that I've been learning more about since October 7th.
I read the article. I'm going to read some of the other articles that Berger references, but I'm almost shocked by how clearly the cognitive dissonance is put on display here. It's a horrifying fusion between liberal identity politics and Zionist identity politics which is why it is very revealing. Thank you for the share!
I fear that disingenuousness and deliberate lies (even by omission) would be preferable to what is emerging in my ongoing study into all of this.
In fact, this article is the most direct reflection I've seen so far of the destructive thing that seemingly resulted from the merging of Critical Theory (Frankfurt school) and Zionist/Jewish identity politics.
The author is saying "I've put in the work for liberal identity politics, just look at my record! I've also put in the work for my Zionist identity politics, just look at my record!" And they seem to almost insinuate that they are a rare breed of a "true" Zionist progressive.
However, the reality is that both these forms of identity politics have been used in very destructive ways -- especially on the Zionism front.
I can see how Berger may be a victim of this gross identity politics abomination that is currently undergoing some sort of metamorphosis since October 7th. But I'm sure that Berger will think of my words as anti-Semitic even though there isn't a single trace of anti-Semitism.
I can see I probably misjudged Berger. I’d seen him billed as “Associate Professor Emeritus”, but it seems he’s really just been a medical doctor, who worked, in some capacity, in a “Department of Family and Community Medicine”. So, he’d probably never tried to take a serious approach to thinking.
However, that wasn’t a Facebook post, but something accepted for publication in an “online magazine” with a staff of dozens.
When Berger writes, “I write this not to insulate Israel from criticism”, is he not aware that insulating Israel is his purpose? Or, does he mean simply that he does not wish to shield Israel from such criticism he regards as fair to level at it?
If he was not being disingenuous, it is a poor reflection on his intelligence that he either failed to explore what he really meant, or considered it not worth explaining to the readership.
The compass of criticism of Israel includes criticising it for existing, but this would be in contravention of the unimpeachable legitimacy of Israel, as the Zionist realisation of a “Jewish state”, which he appears to assert.
Similarly, but more subtly, Israel might be criticised for not having exactly the characteristics we may envisage of a free Palestine. This, presumably, would include rejection of its instantiation of “[specifically] Jewish self-determination”, and, again, that seems to be an anathema to Berger.
I do still struggle to accept that he has been incapable of appreciating that Zionism, as he took the trouble to define it, and the current State of Israel, are discrete, though obviously related, concepts, and that the former has an existence independent of the latter.
I think he showed his colours in expecting us to accept that Israel is not “an apartheid, or white supremacist, state” on the basis that his “reading and personal experience in Israel stand in contradiction to these claims”, but he had some chutzpah to raise that prospect in proximity to “Jewish self-determination” without exploring the correspondence.
"Similarly, but more subtly, Israel might be criticised for not having exactly the characteristics we may envisage of a free Palestine. This, presumably, would include rejection of its instantiation of “[specifically] Jewish self-determination”, and, again, that seems to be an anathema to Berger."
This is the core which I was getting at in my original comment; the deeply embedded false equivalence between Zionism and the Jewish identity more generally (as Berger states: "Zionism is Jewish self-determination") appears to be the root of all cognitive dissonance, intellectual dishonesty, and fallacious thinking.
I think this is much more than just immunizing Israel from actual criticism; the framework for reality altogether is altered. Criticism aimed at Israel, according to Berger's views in this article, can only be limited to a specific domain since the all-defining view that "Zionism is Jewish self-determination" seems to be viewed as an unquestionable truth -- notice how it is never even remotely suggested that this is a subjective position -- hence there being no possible valid criticism against this core assertion.
"I think he showed his colours in expecting us to accept that Israel is not “an apartheid, or white supremacist, state” on the basis that his “reading and personal experience in Israel stand in contradiction to these claims”, but he had some chutzpah to raise that prospect in proximity to “Jewish self-determination” without exploring the correspondence."
You raise great points about the exploration of Jewish self-determination. I am highly skeptical of the Israel lobby because I've been critically observed the aftermath of October 7th, but that's only more reason for me to seek out constructive dialogue as well as the opinions of critical thinkers on the pro-Israel side. Your point reminds me that I would have absolutely welcomed a genuine breakdown of the all-encompassing statement that "Zionism is Jewish self-determination," for instance. It's a real shame that such sentiments are essentially never substantiated with anything other than pathos in today's public discourse.
It's entirely possible that Berger's true thoughts are buried beneath the pathos -- and that there might be logos beneath what appears to be blatant demagoguery. Unfortunately, that is entirely left to the imagination with an article such as this one.
Lastly, I want to add that Berger also betrays his own intellectuality not only through the lack of actual substance and depth in this article, but also due to the mathematical quantitative résumé he presents. Berger lists several liberal identity politics causes that he has publicly advocated, as well as some "pro-Palestinian" causes, which is implicitly supposed to "prove" his allegiance and integrity as a "progressive".
I suppose this is the where any semblance of actual reason may be found in this article. The reason why I fail to see how reason is genuinely at work here, however, is that the entire political binary is not just crumbling for everyone to see today -- the binary has been falling apart for a very long time. The human mind will rationalize, by itself, in order to understand the situation they are in. The less we understand the situation and all of its context, the more we are forced to rely on rationalization. The line between rationalization and reason may be paper-thin in our individual microcosm and conscious experience, but that same line becomes magnified and amplified, making it much easier to spot (which also comes with the risk of exaggerated perception) when it is given an expressed and/or publicized form in the macrocosm -- in other words, the public domain.
That's an opinion post from two months after the event (while investigations were still ongoing), quoting unnamed sources and zero actual evidence. Is it possible that, since Hamas fighters wear civilian clothes and (despite the brown victim/white oppressor narrative) physically resemble Israelis, the Israeli military forces accidentally fired on their own people? Yes, that is certainly possible. Historically, "friendly fire" accounts for up to 20% of all warzone casualties, so it would be odd if there were zero such tragic incidents. HOWEVER, to take isolated and unverified anecdotes of mistaken identity and use them to "prove" that October 7th was perpetrated by the victims is both rhetorically unsound and morally reprehensible.
morally reprehensible is what's going on in all ostensible camps of this killing zone. The cabal are extremely good at manipulation and control of the narrative, at setting up and funding extremists to do the dirty work they want done, at spinning and selling stories that have zero truth in them, at creating and funding "protest" groups that shit stir, at creating bot farms to do the same, and at executing false flags.
Every single person on earth should assume this to be the case in EVERY single conflict on earth. Nothing pushed is to be assumed to be true at this point.
It is well known that Israeli intelligence collected extensive information about the planned attack. However, the Israeli government did not think Hamas was capable of executing the plan. This is identical to what's happening in the United States today, where our government blithely ignores the extreme danger of Islamic terror attacks facilitated by our open border.
He also literally claims that what is happening on the US border is "identical". Have to wonder how long it's been since he consulted a dictionary.
He's right, though. We all know that the Patriot Act is in the past now; the War on Terror is totally over and was a complete success; and the US government hasn't been harassing its citizens for years -- oh, wait
Alex Fox appears to be a serial liar, and pretty racist too. Antony Lowenstein does a good job of listing the support Israel has given countless dictators, fascists and various other scum all over the world since its founding. Deniers of that country's nature are a dime a dozen, and getting pretty boring too.
Perhaps one good thing can come out of Israel's savage campaign against Palestinians if it causes Americans to see that Israel is no friend of America.
Americans might have seen that when Israel attacked the USS Liberty in 1967 except that the US and Israel lied about the incident.
Goal post movement? I'm just pointing out that the exact same thing could happen here. There have been Senate hearings going back 20 years discussing the way Islamic extremist groups, including Hamas, have established relationships with South American cartels and adversarial governments, such as Venezuela. If you think jihadists don't have active cells and arms caches all around this country, you're kidding yourself. They are just waiting for the right time to act.
We're still all digesting and debating this but there is clearly a lot of factual and irrefutable evidence enclosed such as articles and videos from esteemed sources. Legal documents that have also been filed
And you can’t see that there might be a reason for that? An occupied person having every right to fight the occupier and if you think Israel is innocent of that then take a look at what’s happening in the West Bank where there is no Hamas. Does Israel have the right to steal Palestinian home and land? Imagine what Israel would do if Palestinians had the power to steal Israel’s land. Or yours.
God vs. Satan is a matter of faith, and faith is not about truth.
What, pray tell, is "platitudinous" about my statement—in the context of "there is ALWAYS two sides to a story"? The "believer" (or even the biased one) BELIEVES one story or the other. The "seeker" SEARCHES for the truth in one story or the other or somewhere in between.
There are always two sides to a story. The truth does not *always* lie somewhere in between. Sometimes one party is lying and the other is telling the truth. I used Satan and God in my example simply because they are archetypes.
Alex, you are a breath of fresh air here. I shared your brilliant Substack on cognitive dissonance and Palestinian terrorists with my subscribers.
I am curious why CJ finally decided to confront his more radical readers at this time. Despite his previously misguided commentary, where he voiced support for an illusory "more moderate" group of Palestinians and advocated for a ceasefire and Israeli withdrawal to stem innocent civilian casualties, it seems even he could no longer tolerate the Jew-hating extremists (the ones who call themselves "anti-Zionists") that make up a substantial majority of his readership. I say, "At last!"
CJ's views seem to align with those of Vera Shalev, the medical freedom activist and Holocaust survivor who recently joined the chorus of self-hating Jews labeling Israel's military response as "genocidal." I am republishing my views on Shalev and wonder if you have an opinion on her recent unfortunate comments.
It is disheartening when Vera Shalev, a significant figure in the medical freedom movement, allows remnants of leftism to infiltrate her thinking. She might as well align with the woke, vaccinated, mask-wearing Marxist college students who idolize Hamas. Remarkably, throughout her entire interview, she fails to address the glaringly obvious issue.
Ms. Shalev claims that the Israeli government colluded with Hamas to permit the October 7th massacre. This revives the tired claim that Israel supported Hamas by returning Gaza to the Palestinians, a decision now seen as a grave misjudgment. It was naively believed that Hamas could prove more progressive than the radical PLO at the time. However, this is now ancient history.
Today, Ms. Shalev confuses hubris for collusion. Why did military leaders ignore all the warning signs? It’s improbable that a country which, only a few years earlier, traded hundreds of terrorist prisoners for one soldier has now become allies with their arch-enemy. The reality is likely that these commanders were so confident in their military superiority over Hamas that they became complacent, caught off-guard by their own arrogance, neglecting other perspectives.
The fundamental issue remains: Hamas is a terrorist organization, a point Ms. Shalev refuses to discuss. While she acknowledges the goodness of most Palestinians, she overlooks their lack of control over a government committed to Israel’s destruction—as stated in their charter.
Ms. Shalev labels the situation a "genocide," basing her assertions on statistics from Hamas. What should Israel do? Withdraw and allow Hamas to regroup for another attack like the one on October 7th? And what about the hostages? Disregarding them is not an option; rescuing at least four was a significant achievement, preventing further torture by their captors.
In all conflicts, civilian casualties are tragic but sometimes unavoidable, particularly when the enemy uses civilians as shields.
Ms. Shalev uniquely criticizes Netanyahu as one of the worst offenders of medical tyranny, ignoring that similar policies are widespread globally. She incorrectly compares the restrictions during the COVID-19 pandemic to the situation in Gaza. The two are incomparable. In many countries, people faced tough choices regarding vaccination and employment, but some resisted. In contrast, Hamas represents an existential threat with the explicit aim to kill.
While I respect Ms. Shalev, her overly idealistic worldview is difficult to comprehend.
Thanks, Turfseer! Usually, I steer clear of the comments section, but in this case, I got sucked into a pointless argument. I appreciate your kind words, and agree with your position. Unfortunately, the Israeli military has a history of underestimating the vitriolic hatred it faces from the Arab nations surrounding it - an error which, when compounded with the hubris of Israeli leaders who place undue confidence in their own technological superiority, led to being surprised by the 1973 Yom Kippur war, and again on 10/7.
“What should Israel do? Withdraw and allow Hamas to regroup for another attack like the one on October 7th?”
If the Israelis withdraw to Europe, Russia, the Americas, and whencesoever they came, there couldn’t be any possibility of another such attack (false flag, hoax, or authentic).
You suggest the Jews return to Europe so they can be murdered again.
Next, you continue the false charge of genocide. It was false yesterday. It was false today. it will be false tomorrow.
However, the charge, as manufactured as any slur of the Nazis, is part of the propaganda efforts of Hamas and its patrons. You repeat it, because, like your Nazi ancestors back in the 1930s, who told the Jews "Get out of Europe, go to Palestine." You once again want to be master of life and death over the Jews. "Get out of Palestine, come back to Europe. So we may kill you again."
Yes, I said that those who have, or whose recent ancestors had, moved into Palestine as part of the Zionist project ought to return to where they formerly lived. I called for no murders, though, and any reasonable assessment would conclude that these people would be considerably more safe in the places I mentioned than by continuing to hold out, on stolen land, against its understandably aggrieved legitimate occupants.
Let’s not get bogged down with the technicalities of “genocide”. The term is quite a recent addition to the English lexicon, anyway. Instead, we can simply agree that the “Israeli” regime is entirely wilfully perpetrating a mass slaughter of the impoverished, largely defenceless, people it has long imprisoned in the Gaza Strip, and, starting more recently, to a not immaterial extent doing similarly in the West Bank, also.
What evidence do you have for my ancestors having been “Nazi”? From my vantage point, it appears a delusional claim for you to have made.
I have never been the master of anyone’s life or death, and have not the slightest desire to become so. You are floundering in the effluent of your own diseased imagination.
1) Land was not "stolen." It was won in defensive war launched by the Arabs. You do not get the territory you lost, in a war you started, so you have a better shot of success the second time around.
2) "Let’s not get bogged down with the technicalities of “genocide”."
Uh no. I disagree. You are going to throw one of the most slanderous, indendiary charges available in the modern world, then you better dot your I's and cross your T's and not say "Uh, maybe it's not really genocide but close enough."
“Israeli” regime is entirely wilfully perpetrating a mass slaughter of the impoverished, largely defenceless, people it has long imprisoned in the Gaza Strip"
Also false.
Hamas deliberately mixes military targets with civilian targets in order to inflate the death of the people they are supposedly fighting on behalf, to maximize casualties to use in propaganda.
If they didn't want deaths they could:
A) Free the hostages
B) Protect civilians within the tunnels that Hamas dug for military use.
C) Not instigate the rape, murder, kidnapping of 1200 Israelis which any country in the world would have responded to, and responded hard.
Further, Israel provides:
A) Aid to the people they're supposedly "genociding" to use your insulting and false and inflamatory term.
B) Provides warning and evacuation calls for targeted areas. (You may scoff. But the people Hamas murders do not receive such warnings, other than wide scale "We will kill all the jews" type strong arming.
C) Has achieved the lowest ratio of civilian to militant death of any urban conflict in history, beyond America's in Fallujah to take one example.
Of course, even if Israel does some truly ingenious methodology to target terrorists and not civilians -- by, say, selling pagers to members of a terrorist organization that can be detonated only on said terrorist to minimize damage to other civilians -- you would give no credit. You would STILL call it genocide. But let's not get too strict about the term, like you said. Absurdity.
"What evidence do you have for my ancestors having been “Nazi”? From my vantage point, it appears a delusional claim for you to have made."
Oh, let's not get too caught up on the term "Nazi." That's how you argue, right?
You support the genocide of the Jewish people. You do today. And had you lived in the 1930s, you would have done it then too.
"I have never been the master of anyone’s life or death, and have not the slightest desire to become so. You are floundering in the effluent of your own diseased imagination."
Ahhh, so you never had to make hard decisions. You get to stand on the sidelines and sneer and mock and insult and decide who should live and who should die while having no skin in the game -- but then protest your innocence because you are powerless.
If the Arabs launched a “defensive war”, someone must have been threatening them. Perhaps you’d care to suggest who you think that was?
It’s a distinctly odd telling of history that holds there was already any kind of war in progress when the Zionist terrorists commenced invading Palestine.
“maybe it's not really genocide but close enough” – You are confusing me, a real life person, with the products of your imagination. I’ve retracted nothing. All I said was that the applicability of one specific word is not worth arguing about. If you wish to cleave to something in particular in what “genocide” means to you, I’ll leave you to it.
Asserting something to be false does not make it so.
The inmates of a concentration camp cannot raise a formal army and construct well-defended military bases. Were that possible, we’d have seen it done in the 1930s/40s, when many of the most ingenious, and personally resourceful, people were imprisoned in such camps.
Those fighting an occupation must necessarily do so from within the general population. We saw that in Vichy France, with the French Resistance (and also the Jewish Resistance).
“Free the hostages” – I do not think that, on 6 October 2023, there were any hostages of the Gazans, but Palestinians in Gaza, and the West Bank, were having their lives truncated, and blighted, by the occupiers. So, I do not see how your suggestion could be any kind of solution.
“Protect civilians within the tunnels that Hamas dug for military use.” – You’d like to banish the legitimate people of Palestine underground. Cute.
“Not instigate the rape, murder, kidnapping of 1200 Israelis” – You are, at best, referring to much repeated allegations about the events of roughly 24 hours, fifteen months ago, not to anything currently occurring, except with the “Israelis” in the active role. If you want to see rape, visit Sde Teiman. Some of the MKs would probably treat you to a guided tour.
“Israel provides: A) Aid” – The Zionist invaders have taken everything the Palestinians had. Your excuses are pathetic.
“warning and evacuation calls for targeted areas” – The regime’s targets have nowhere safe to go, and it slaughters them while they flee, in their refugee camps, and even while they try to collect some flour. Your words vividly reveal your abject lack of humanity.
“the lowest ratio of civilian to militant death of any urban conflict in history” – The regime is murdering its prisoners. The fact people turn to violence to try to repel their oppressors does not make them legitimate targets. Would you have been applauding the putting down of the Sonderkommandos?
I did not say the pager (etc.) attack was genocide. Your imagination is running away with you, again.
If that operation was real, it was unnecessary, further, illustration of the utter moral depravity of the terrorist-founded regime you applaud. “Ingenious”, indeed!
“You support the genocide of the Jewish people” – You are a pathetic excuse for a human being, but I shall never extrapolate from you to any arbitrary group of which you might hope to be considered a member.
I am not going to review, for you, what decisions I’ve made in the course of my life, but what I told you about being “master of life and death” is true, as is all else I’ve said to you. If you’ve a need to assuage a vestigial conscience with claims of having been forced into a decision, that is purely an issue for you, and any judgement I might hazard, upon imperfect information, would be entirely irrelevant. Moreover, I believe that it is not what you did that is now important, but what you learn from it (though it doesn’t really look like this distinction is going to help you).
Your suggestion, if that is what it was, that solely men of violence should comment on issues of morality, is disturbed.
I am not powerless. It is correct that I cannot, directly, achieve very much at all, but one thing you really should not imagine is that the millions of us, countering your anti-human, twisted, delusions with plain fact and straightforward morality, are not going to prevail.
It does not escape me that you can type ludicrous nonsense all day long. You are already overdue on the substantiation of your allegation about my “Nazi ancestors back in the 1930s”. I shall now pay no heed to anything else you say (instruction of libel lawyers excepted) until you have made good on it.
Well you start your lies right at the beginning. "Poor defenseless Gazans.
Right. Except Hamas was armed to the teeth by Iran, including Jaws of life to break into the security rooms of Israeli civilians.
You conveniently leave that part out.
Then you go on to describe them as inmates of Concentration camp.
Right! Because Auschwitz had 5 star hotels, didn't it? No? Ahh, but there are in Gaza!
You mock the idea of Gazans being able to use Hamas tunnels to take shelter in.
But you're indifferent to when Israelis do hide in bomb shelters when Hamas and Hezbollah shoot rockets at them.
Yeah, those rockets that came from those "unarmed" Gazans.
That's enough. Three tremendous lies and I haven't gotten into the bulk of your murderous hatred of Jews and your twisting of historical fact to create a fictional story for your outrage.
False flag and unlike 9/11 and the lead up to the Iraq war all these events happened in Mordor itself so the truth is almost impossible to find. All funded and armed by the Great Satan itself.
You remind me of a line from Dashiell Hammett: ”The sign over the bar read: ‘Only the finest, genuine pre-war Scotch whiskey served here.’ I was counting the lies in that sentence, and got to three, with promise of more, when I had to go.”
did you leave out the Hannibal directive where the Zionists themselves would massacre their own in order to keep from having to release the Palestinian hostages that they have in their political prisons.
Since you're "not sure what to make of this column," I'll attempt to summarize its theme: some people refuse to believe that Islamic extremists committed a genocidal attack on Jews in Israel on October 7th - an assault that included mass murder, mutilation, rape, and abduction, most of which was livestreamed, photographed and video-recorded by the perpetrators, and which was widely celebrated throughout the Muslim world as a joyous event. Because some people refuse to believe this - despite the fact that the organization responsible for it has not only taken full responsibility but promised to do it again - those same people choose to blame Jews instead.
Alex you left out some crucial facts - why did the IDF stand down for seven hours? Why was the concert moved? Why did they refuse to believe the spotters who informed them for weeks, Hamas was training? How did all the cars get completely burnt at the concert and why did Israel then bury all the evidence, claiming it was for environmental purposes?
How come there were never any rapes reports filed with the police and or positive rape kits? How come over one million Israel's have since emigrated to Europe to the USA and are not returning? Do you think it "might" have anything to do with witnessing your own government slaughter it's own military and citizens? Just imagine rushing to defend your Country on 10-07 and then, being murdered by them instead? The only thing you did neglect to mention were the beheaded babies which I assume you also saw the photographs of?
You raise valid points BJ. The fact that Hamas was able to breach the border, the concert being moved, and the military not responding for 6 to 7 hours do raise a lot of questions. This situation in Israel is complex and confusing. Too complex for my little brain. I’m gonna stay out of it. I’ve tried understanding. I’m hoping someone below answers my question about what is Zionism. I need the basics. 😉
The confusion in Israel, Ukraine, and many other places around the world is engineered. The motto of Mossad is, "By way of deception, thou shalt do war." They've been practicing this for decades and now are proficient in the means and ways, including the infiltration of govt, media, and the creation of Hollywood (druid wands) as "entertainment". You can look up the King David Hotel bombing and the USS Liberty for documented examples of this devious tactic.
To understand Zionism, I would suggest looking into the connections between Theodore Herzl, Arthur Balfour, Lord Acton, and Walter Rothschild for starters. The basic concept is that Khazarian (Ukraine, Turkey) "Jews" are due an ethnostate called Israel located in Palestine. This is based on their interpretation of the Torah and their Babylonian Talmud which is a very telling read.
None of those are facts. There are some legitimate questions - such as why the Israeli government ignored intelligence about the planned attack, and why the military response took so long - but others are pure nonsense. Nowhere close to a million Israelis have emigrated since the attack, and you can't do a rape kit on a burned corpse. Even the UN, which hates Israel, had to admit that Hamas engaged in mass rape and murder. https://www.nbcnews.com/investigations/un-finds-clear-convincing-information-hostages-raped-gaza-rcna141789
I will not waste my time having this conversation with you. If you had done your research you would've known Israel published the information about burying the cars That's just one of many facts you know nothing about.
https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-774511
Nice try. I've been following this story extremely closely since the day it happened. The decision to bury cars was based on Jewish tradition regarding respect for the dead. You're right though, this conversation would be a waste of time because you've already decided to blame the Jews. Maybe when the jihadists come to cut your head off and rape the women in your family, you'll realize you were wrong about who your enemy is.
We've have all been following this story from Day One. But the difference between you and the rest of us is that we do the extensive investigating in search of irrefutable facts and pay no attention whatsoever to mainstream media. NBC you can't possibly be serious?
I myself happened to be retired and live alone. I spend at least 12 hours/day reading, if not more. I don't own a TV nor a cell phone. I read the comment section of everything I read where you can often uncover even greater information which we all then pass on to each other.
For the record the last thing any of us are is close minded. We also discuss in great an enormous length what we believe to be fact from fiction. Uncovering the truth today is almost but thankfully not yet, impossible. I am grateful to all the great people on Substack that I have met who also spend as much time doing the extensive research.
This is Israel admitting the truth!
https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/asa-winstanley/israel-admits-immense-amount-friendly-fire-7-october
Here's the problem: your decision of which facts are "irrefutable" is based on your existing biases. As just one example, your assertion that a million Israelis have left Israel is categorically false, yet you accepted and parroted it for some reason. Furthermore, the degree to which you weigh those "facts" is relative to all the information that you either dismiss or ignore. In this case, you and your pals on the comment section here are laser-focused on anything that suggests Israeli action may have contributed to the death toll on 10/7, while seemingly overlooking the vast mountain of evidence that the "Al-Aqsa Flood" was just one more attack by Islamists against non-Muslims, much like the countless such attacks perpetrated against Jews over the last 1,400 years, and the ones routinely perpetrated against Christians (and even moderate Muslims) in Nigeria, Sudan, and elsewhere in Africa.
Al-Aqsa Flood was not "just one more attack by Islamists against Muslins", as you write, Alex Fox. This attack was retaliation for many years of apartheid rule in Israel and a way to let the rest of the world know about the violent and illegal suppression by Israel of Arabs in the occupied territories. Palestinians have the right to defend themselves against IDF, which is an occupying force. By killing Israelis, Israel has become a pariah in the world, and with good reason.
I have never been disrespectful on Substack but you are really pushing it. As of December 2023 TWO MONTHS after OCTOBER 2023 nearly 1/2 million people have fled Israel. DO THE MATH! In 2 MONTHS nearly 1/2 million people left.
It's now been an additional seven months with Hezbollah bombing the hell out of the north and war throughout the Middle East looming with every passing day. Why in Gods name would anyone remain IN Israel given the fact a million Israel's also hold dual citizenship?
Furthermore they recently lifted the draft exemption for all ultra Orthodox Jews of which there are roughly 1.3 million. Chief Sephardic Rabbi Yitzhak Yosef stated: "ultra-Orthodox Jews will leave Israel en masse if the government ends exemptions of mandatory military enlistment enjoyed by the community."
Again do the math or better yet, try and get a flight OUT OF Israel to Europe or the USA!
Because of everything the economy is also in shambles which has also lead to everyone leaving. Israel is attempting to engage in war on seven fronts - no one is going to remain
“vast mountain of evidence that the ‘Al-Aqsa Flood’ was just one more attack by Islamists against non-Muslims, much like the countless such attacks perpetrated against Jews over the last 1,400 years, and the ones routinely perpetrated against Christians (and even moderate Muslims) in Nigeria, Sudan, and elsewhere in Africa.”
Is any of that mountain other than highly circumstantial?
problem is that what you accuse others of your own facts being based upon your existing biases.
https://open.substack.com/pub/nevertrustawizard/p/before-you-argue-with-a-zionist?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=1onmwi
Alex! Here's some more news for you! But those of us who actually do thorough and extensive research rather than simply spew the vile propaganda mainstream belches out, knew about ALL of this back in October right after it happened.
https://mondoweiss.net/2024/07/israels-leading-paper-says-its-own-army-deliberately-killed-israelis-on-october-7-but-in-the-u-s-media-silence/
I like the one about Hamas flying hanggliders over the wall to drop bombs! Like they wouldn't have been blown out of the sky 1000 feet before they reached the wall. Reminds me of some of the good fables from WW2.
And did you see the cars the Hamas "rockets" hit? They were melted down to their frames. Looked like the cars and trucks 1/2 mile away from "ground zero" on 911.
Hamas used Kamikaze drones to knock out surveillance so that they could get the powered paragliders across the fence. Incidentally, the exact same tactic would work against any US military base.
yup, they also had tech to de-activate the cell phones / signals of the IDF (an' commanders) AND "activate" the burner phones of the "hamassians"...
And are we still to believe in the miraculous efficacy of the legendary "Iron Dome" that is a technical infeasibility?
I fer one am not doubtin' that the swamp in Israel "at best" stood down for many hours--but a select set of self-destructive tyrants (BBGun is one--he did not "act alone!") doesn't characterize an entire country or its history--many "chews" here an' in "Oh Israel" are VERY concerned 'bout what went down that day an' are not remotely happy about how their gubbamint is actin' in "their" name (sound familiar?)--BUT even just b/c one group of 3 IDF soldiers follerin' the command of General Hiram--who seemed a little messed up--brutal even--came out about the tank fire ("friendly fire"--not) killin' 13 people in ONE Kibbutz (Bari) doesn't mean this was a full set up an' the IDF went out an wasted joos on command.
Lotta questions--agreed--but imho, CJ's just not buyin' the wholesale stories (such as "Israel faked it--nobuddy died or was raped or taken hostage" or "Israel an' Hamas did this together b/c Israel controls Hamas fully..." or other malarkey. )
One bad apple (a few?) don't spoil the whole bunch... there are many (most) IDF soldiers who are decent humans an' do not wanna do anything but defend their country. What some higher-ups did--was not right--an' there have been IDF soldiers of conscience speakin' up. I say bless'em AND I sez "yas yas yas" to an investigation--an' no (no no) to the wholesale blamin' of the joos and/or callin' us all "killers"--
I can't speak for Alex to whom you responded but imho I think he's comin' from a similar camp that we can look inta some sketchy stuff but not go off wholesale blamin' an' finger pointin'. What happened was a tragedy--most have abandoned that idea--also wholesale. Folks have already taken sides an' fully drawn their conclusions with only sketchy proof... jus' sayin' what I know...
This looks like a comment from the JIDF made to look like a regular fella from the "flyover states" who loves merica's greatest ally ever.
NBC "News" as a source, zzzzzzzzzzzzz
Why? that is why. The first "hamas suicide bombing" happened 40 days after Baruch Goldstein massacred 29 praying Palestinians at Ibrahimi Mosque in Nablus. 40 days is a traditional mourning period. Zionists keep pretending that "hamas" did it just because they "hate Jews" and "what monsters would target civilians on purpose".
Such is every made-up story of "unprovoked hamas terrorism".
Israel first commits a mass-murder or a massive attack on Palestinian civilians (like Goldstein and like the beating and killing of Al-Aqsa worshipers in 2023 and mass-taking of Palestinian hostages (several thousands, not a few), to made Resistance to respond and then claim "Hamas attack". Why? Because they wanted to have Gaza for themselves already. The October 7 (not that date, but that deliberately provoked response by the Resistance) was the needed "atrocity" to manufacture international support for plain and simple Final Solution to make Gaza "a land without people". Jonathan Ofir, Israeli anti-Zionist: "Israeli think tank lays out a blueprint for the complete ethnic cleansing of Gaza
An Israeli think tank with ties to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu issued a report on October 17 promoting the "unique and rare opportunity" for the “relocation and final settlement of the entire Gaza population. The Hamas attack on Israeli towns surrounding Gaza on October 7 has provided a pretext for an unprecedented, genocidal revenge campaign by Israel involving the massacre of now nearly 5,000 Palestinians, including over 2,000 children – and that may only be the beginning. Now, an Israeli think tank with ties to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is promoting plans for the complete ethnic cleansing of Gaza. " - https://mondoweiss.net/2023/10/israeli-think-tank-lays-out-a-blueprint-for-the-complete-ethnic-cleansing-of-gaza/
Nonsense. As many have said, when a lie gets repeated enough, it becomes Israel. When did you personally decide you couldn't publicly defend the beheaded babies libel? Good for you for wising up, I guess. (Btw, I've heard that half a million Israelis have left, a still hefty number.)
Still no response from the author and his followers? Proof that they themselves know that the content of the article is pure bullshit that does not worth defending.
Rape reports? Fuck you. The women were dead.
then how would you know they were raped?
Clear false flag operation and stand down order (published by Haaretz) to keep Net and Yahoo! in power and finalize their 75 year land grab. This has been mainstream for six months now. Ignorance of this is a choice at this point.
https://thegoodcitizen.live/p/this-wicked-world
Always amazing to me that people prefer to believe in shadowy conspiracy theories about Jews, rather than listen to what Islamic extremists have been publicly saying, publishing, and broadcasting for the last 100 years. You don't have to like Israel or Jews, but if you think Hamas or the ideology they represent are the good guys in ANY equation, you are very sadly mistaken.
I published that Oct 8th. The day after. I knew what it was from the start because I don't watch CNN and don't belive what governments tell me and didn't start paying attention to all this yesterday. Who funds Hamas? Who is on record saying they need to keep funding Hamas? Who formed Hamas to undermine the PLO and two state solution? Who removed soldiers from that portion of the fence the week before and sent them to the west bank? Cui Bono from the false flag? How? All governments derive their power from enemies. If they can't find them, they create them and manufacture them and will not hesitate to sacrifice their own people in the process. This is all well documented Alex. You can choose to ignore it and whine about "conspiracy theories" but don't expect honest people who care about truth to respect you for it.
So you jumped to an immediate conclusion with zero evidence, based on your existing biases, and now you cherry pick whatever you can find to support your predetermined conclusion. But you say you "care about the truth." Got it.
If you care about the truth, look into the actual history of Hamas. Yes, Netanyahu had an ill-advised policy of supporting Hamas in order to keep the Arab factions divided. But by no stretch of the imagination did Israel create Hamas. It was a direct offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood, which was founded in the 1920s, when "Palestine" - including the modern state of Jordan - was still a British colony.
Hamas along with the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) is and was resistance fighters...fighting an apartheid regime that is brutal, sadistic, and bent on the genocide of the Palestinian people...are they being abused and used, probably...what fighting machine isn't used and abused by the Globalist. The fact that ethnic cleansing is happening should haunt all of us for we are in the middle of a culling.
Exactly! It's a global coup. It says so, in the second chorus, here: https://www.tiktok.com/@rodef_shalom/video/7365378754534706464
The genocidal dancing fools, the mindless fools...the nurses, doctors, police, and the IDF terrorist...haven't a clue to reality.
"So you jumped to an immediate conclusion with zero evidence, based on your existing biases..." Good description of the allegations of rape and mutilation by Hamas. (If those things had actually happened the world would have been subjected to 24/7 replay of it for 9 months now.) Israelis have been presumed to be noble and truthful and eternal victims since 1948; that people are finally questioning that narrative is sticking in many a craw at the moment. It must be especially galling that so many Jewish people are out there protesting the barbaric behavior of the Israelis and their Apartheid system. You can keep on gaslighting but, with all due respect to PT Barnum, it seems that since October 7th there is one less sucker every minute of this genocide.
"So you jumped to an immediate conclusion with zero evidence, based on your existing biases..." Good description of the allegations of rape and mutilation by Hamas.
Good description of the allegation that Osama bin Laden committed 9/11 too, another event which CJ (an author I previously respected) apparently believes happened precisely as we have been told.
Wow. You're actually denying that Hamas terrorists raped and mutilated their victims on October 7? I guess if the extensive first-hand testimony, photographic and video evidence, coroner's reports, and even the conclusion of an investigation by the notoriously anti-Israel United Nations didn't convince you, nothing I could say would possibly make a difference.
Let's have the proof, and none of this "All the victims are dead." Cut the bullshit, show us credible proof, or shut up.
And here you have it: apologists for Israel invoke horrific acts supposedly committed by Hamas but go silent when asked for proof. They expect everyone to be cowed by their wild, unfounded statements (and, presumably, the threat of being called "anti-semitic" for questioning Zionist BS), so they keep throwing out there whatever the hell they want, no matter how debunked. I get it though, what with genocide being so hard to defend. Must be hard to hold a position so minority that literally millions of people around the world take to the streets to denounce it. Why they can't bring themselves to finally come over to the side of truth and decency is beyond me.
Yup, those are definitely the right questions to be asking!
👍
Always amazing to me that so many people who comment on Israel and Hamas don’t know that Hamas was created by Israel, and is still run by Israel. Yes, many or perhaps most of the Hamas fighters are Muslims who hate Jews and Israel, but they are just clueless useful idiots who are unknowingly working for Israel while thinking they are attacking Israel. Just ask yourself who benefitted from the 10/7 attack. Certainly not the 130,000 dead Palestinians, many of whom were children.
Technicality: Hamas was not created by Israel, but yes funded by Israel. Back in 1987 BEFORE Hamas was a terrorist org., Israel made the totally butt-headed tactical error of fundin' Hamas thinkin' it would be a clever move to split up the potentially united "Palestinian" front--b/c Hamas was a religious-not-political group (they wanted ta kill the joos but not "for territory"--just on "religious grounds") -- an' again, at the time Hamas had not been terrorist. Thus Israel thought it was a safer "bet"--better than fundin' the PLO (which was political in aim AND territorial)
Boy golly were they wrong---an' I'll add that however fatal an' dumb a decision that was--Israel didn't actually create Hamas (or Isis fer that matter either--folks are sayin' Israel created "them all"...) So yup, it's amazing that some folks think Israel created Hamas an' don't know the backstory (embarrassin' as it is...with fatal results).
You have your shoes on the wrong feet...Israel is a terrorist organization...Hamas is a rag tag band of resistance fighters fighting for their homeland...
Daisy, Daisy, give me your evidence; do!
What you wrote looks like a prime example of a limited hangout.
“Article 31 Describes Hamas as ‘a humanistic movement’, which ‘takes care of human rights and is guided by Islamic tolerance when dealing with the followers of other religions’. ‘Under the wing of Islam’, it is possible for Islam, Christianity and Judaism ‘to coexist in peace and quiet with each other’ provided that members of other religions do not dispute the sovereignty of Islam in the region.” [1]
1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1988_Hamas_charter#Summary_of_the_1988_charter
Oh, well, it's alright then. As long as non-Muslims "do not dispute the sovereignty of Islam in the region," accept their dhimmi status and pay the jizaya tax, then peace reigns supreme! Unless, of course, you want human rights of any kind.
The fact that some people hate Jews so much that they are willing to become apologists for Islamic extremism still surprises me. I don't know why though ... When queer, purple-haired college girls in the USA are cheering for Iran, where women are tortured and killed for going outside with their hair uncovered, it's clear that reality has no bearing on people's opinions.
Alex,
You have, there, read a helluva lot into the short clause you quoted.
I would certainly not endorse triumphalism, but, should a mass of people choose to associate themselves into a state with an explicit, religious, theme, I would have no in-principle objection. I would not be one of them, but tastes differ. (Interestingly, the current State of Israel was, as I understand it, created as a declaredly Jewish entity, though “Jewish” not in the religious sense, but in the alternative, nebulous, one, which, as far as I can make out, encompasses things such as sharing a sense of humour with Allan Stewart Konigsberg.)
At least as strongly as I would support the right to form a religious state, I would support the secession right of a religious (or atheist/agnostic) minority. It is all a matter of the much neglected, fundamental, right of freedom of association.
lol--just peeked in (yup, cain't resist) an' saw ya mentioned the Dhimmi's too! an' yup, it's kinda wacky when the LGBTQ++pi-infinity-furries with farfel crowd are cheerin' on their grim reapers (they like ta throw the boys off buildin's--Clark Kent wouldn't make it in time ta save 'em either!)
Nope, I ain't a hangout (that's kinda funny--nobuddy in their right mind'd find a crackpot performin' ahrtiste like myself ta be a ltd. hangout--not even a "spy")--but laffs aside... IMHO an' backed by a lotta text I've read--the intent of radical Islam (Sharia law) is to kill all the joos--in fact there's a reward's program Hamas offers! (Everyone loves a reward, no?) For every jew killed (via jihad or otherwise) the fambly is set fer life, paid! handsomely! An' the young fella is rewarded in heaven with blessin's an' all the whores in the harem he would ever want--Paradise! It's such a fab program (I only WISH I wuz kiddin') that in fact that's the only $$$ they'll see ever from Hamas -- a corrupt org. that pockets the rest so they can live the high life in Quatar.
Now ya don't have ta believe me one bit (since ya asked, tho, DO look at the links below an' learn from folks that are well-scholared in these matters)--
An' I'll fully AGREE That joos can purdy much live in peace with Christians an' have (with the occasional rift or crusade... ta put it mildly)--done so for a long long time--certainly with success in more modern times. But see here, Jesus never told his followers ta kill all the joos. So if ya like the lahdeedah of everyone livin' together in one nice bus like the Partridge Fambly--I'd say that's California Dreamin'! MANY Muslims ain't radical an' not all even hate joos--as a New Yawker I've certainly encountered that--but even the small percentage that wanna take their scripture literally--come out ta be HUGE numbers.
So here's some homework fer ya--fwiw...
1. The BEST historian on the matter if ya don't wanna go readin' books is this Professor--not even a chew--who 'splains it all:
Francisco Gil White:
https://franciscogilwhite.substack.com/archive
(gotta scroll down to the early stuff an' work yer way thru it chronologically)
2. Also--if ya wanna hear more 'bout what the great Gad Saad calls "the Noble Race" that's "so" humanitarian an' so happy to live in peace with the chews, then DO take a look at this fella's great work--Robert Spencer--also not a "chew"... but he's studied Islam in depth for decades:
https://www.jihadwatch.org/
3. Fwiw Gad, mentioned above, is fluent in Arabic an' had ta flee Lebanon at age 11... he covers a lotta ground over many talks an' interviews... I recommend him too as not only a warm, funny human but as a brilliant professor who LIVED the so-called "peaceful sharin' of space" you speak of...
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLH7qUqM0PLieCVaHA7RegA
4. An' as far as the ladies go--b/c some've us ladies don't wanna wear hijabs an' be part of the bee-u-tee-ful Caliphate--I'll recommend the many essays on this by Karen Hunt Mezek who shares the experiences an' words of many women who left Islamic nations due to brutal an' harsh treatment...
Search her archive under "Iran"... see what ya find...it's all good stuff...
https://khmezek.substack.com/archive
5. Last but not least, do a little research on the Dhimmi status for "choos"under Islam - it's kinda like a pogrom--they just had ta pay more taxes, couldn't own land, couldn't ride horses (only donkeys)... not fun! This is the so-called "peaceful" times when everyone got along...
https://katz.sas.upenn.edu/resources/blog/what-do-you-know-dhimmi-jewish-legal-status-under-muslim-rule
('fore I knew better I used ta think 2 state solution was the "best" solution but given a lotta history--an' 5 compromises/treaties refused by the Arabs over time...I do not believe that's remotely possible...)
no worries if yer not interested in readin' the above either--just sharin' in case ya are genuinely curious where I'm gettin' my notions that Hamas is not REMOTELY the "humanistic movement" ya state it is... (fine ta agree ta disagree too!)
You don't have to know you're a limited hangout to be one. Ones who know they are hangouts are called agents. Ones who don't are assets. Assets are usually much more convincing than agents - so they are, in general, preferred.
Daisy,
Thank you for the links, and, more so, for your abstracts.
I doubt you will be surprised, but possibly disappointed, to hear that I’ve not followed any of the links.
From your summaries, you appear to have been reviewing studies of an ideology.
My quick thought, which might not survive scrutiny, is that ideology is too nebulous to admit serious study, but, leaving this aside, I am extremely doubtful of the relevance of scholarly analysis of an ideology to relationships amongst actual individuals.
I am not denying that heavy indoctrination can set someone upon a diabolical course of conduct, but this only argues against the specific ideology, and bears upon treatment plans for the affected individual, following his diagnosis. It does not empower, or enable, us to make decisions about unexamined millions of people with whom we have associated the ideology.
I see fixation upon any alien ideology as dangerous. It is too easy to project a, subjectively, abhorrent ideology upon some segment of humanity, to dehumanising effect, and we don’t really need to remind ourselves of to what dehumanisation can lead.
Perhaps you would like to challenge me on that. What is your proposal for a people you deem steeped in a malevolent ideology? Extermination? Indefinite detention in a de-indoctrination camp, as to which the Chinese authorities subject the Uyghurs?
So, that, all, I’m afraid, looks to be digression. Getting back to the topic:
I did not “state” that Hamas is a “humanistic movement”. That was simply the contention of some evidence I furnished.
It was secondary evidence, which I have not believed to require verification, but its inference is of that being how “Hamas” defines itself, which, really, ought to be determinative of what “Hamas” is (and superior, for example, to what some person, who claims association with Hamas, says of it). Hamas, I think it is fair to say, is a notably shadowy organisation, and, therefore, if anything, more nebulous than, say, the Grand Old Party, or the Democratic Party. Hence, I am dubious of any asserted knowledge of the true essence of it.
Your claims, above [1], were, roughly:
1) That Hamas was not created by the Israeli regime.
2) That Hamas intended a religious genocide of Jewish people.
3) That ISIS was not created by the Israeli regime.
For evidence I asked, but of evidence came there none.
Your abstracts sketched a background that would make your claims less fantastical ( = more easily believed), but this is not evidence (unless you stretch the notion of “circumstantial” beyond breaking point).
1. https://cjhopkins.substack.com/p/the-107-truthers/comment/61559319
OK - what is *your* proposal for a people you deem steeped in a malevolent ideology?
What, for example, would you have done about the thugees - a small Indian sect who believed they were under instruction from their God to roam the roads in India and rob and murder other travelers. They brought their children up with this religion and all adhered to it strictly?
As an aside, it is from this sect we derive the word "thug".
Horace,
I’ve a vague sense of having heard of thugees/thugs previously. I am more positive of the Konyaks having been mentioned by a friend, the other year.
The answer to your question is border security.
From time to time, other peoples will be hostile.
We should not seek to purge the Earth of everyone we suspect might be, or become, some kind of threat, but association is a mutual thing.
Well border security works if the group in question is geographically located somewhere else.
But the thugees lived amongst the people they preyed on. They were not a nation, and didn't live in another, different place separated by a border.
If a religion (cult, gang, whatever) inodctrinates its recruits to attack people who are not in their group, should we (whoever we are) permit that religion? And if we don't permit it (using violence to enforce the ban), then are we in fact just such a dangerous group (gang, cult, religion etc.) ourselves?
I think you are probably correct that borders are the only way to deal with this, but then what do you do when you have people from two groups with incompatible belief systems already intemingled? Must you deport all the members of one of the groups?
It's all a terrible mess - and one reason that multiculturalism is an evil idea. People with incompatible moral codes cannot live together without constant conflict.
"Hamas … is Israel's creation" [1]
"To a certain degree, the Islamist organization whose militant wing has rained rockets on Israel the past few weeks has the Jewish state to thank for its existence. Hamas launched in 1988 in Gaza … But for more than a decade prior, Israeli authorities actively enabled its rise." [2]
"Most of the time, Israeli policy was to treat the Palestinian Authority as a burden and Hamas as an asset. Far-right MK Bezalel Smotrich, now the finance minister in the hardline government and leader of the Religious Zionism party, said so himself in 2015.
According to various reports, Netanyahu made a similar point at a Likud faction meeting in early 2018, when he was quoted as saying that those who oppose a Palestinian state should support the transfer of funds to Gaza, because maintaining the separation between the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza would prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state." [3]
1. https://web.archive.org/web/20131026001612/http:/online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB123275572295011847
2. https://web.archive.org/web/20150813061240/https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/07/30/how-israel-helped-create-hamas/
3. https://web.archive.org/web/20231008160329/https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/
I urge caution in any diagnosis of hatred and its specific targets.
I’m pretty sure this video’s a theatrical production, but, that aside, it isn’t really illustrative of any particular hatred: https://www.israelhayom.com/2024/05/22/chilling-footage-from-kidnapping-of-idf-female-troops-aired/
I doubt it’s unduly speculative to imagine people being nonplussed at being reduced to untermenschen in their own land, nor that this might darken their disposition towards their conquerors and those who maintain the oppression. We ought not, though, presume an especially high instance of blind hatreds of entire, generalised, groups being engendered.
To hear the independent media tell it, Hamas is winning - or has already won.
Precisely!
https://cjhopkins.substack.com/p/the-107-truthers/comment/61557448
as the now peecee Jane Fonda once said (likely her most articulate quote!): "feel the burn"-- Poor CJ got a little singed an' I'm sure there'll be a lot more coals tossed on the fire... The rest of us need Kevlar gatkehs!
ps I hope this comment doesn't come off wrong--when I said he got singed--I'm sad--he bravely did his satire thing which of COURSE has a lotta truth in it--all good satire DOES-- an' folks got out their bic lighters... he did not deserve it... no writer should git this--I mean "poor" genuinely--I feel bad for 'im--some of us are used ta feelin' this burn all the time... just sayin'... (ps fer those not up on their yankee yiddish--gatkehs are long johns an' kevlar is fireproof fabric!)
Isn't it perfectly possible, perhaps even entirely usual, for both sides in this sort of thing to be in the wrong?
My issue with this is that the only people who are genuinely advocating that Zionism does not equate to Judaism are "10/7 Truthers".
While the pro-Israel camp seemingly does everything it can -- even through shockingly successful attempts to ratify into law this absurd false equivalence -- to equate Zionism to Judaism (and vice versa, of course).
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/security-aviation/2024-06-05/ty-article-magazine/.premium/israel-secretly-targeted-american-lawmakers-with-gaza-war-influence-campaign/0000018f-e7c8-d11f-a5cf-e7cb62af0000?v=1719710632158
https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jun/24/israel-fund-us-university-protest-gaza-antisemitism
The false equivalence is the root of so many problems, and it actually makes a lot of sense that the Israel lobby is pushing for this false equivalence because it would create anti-Semitism, by default. Why else would they be spending millions on turning the equivalence into legislative reality in the US?
If people give up on nuance, of course the prevalence of critical thinkers is going to recede. Extremist and polarized perspectives will take their place, but I personally do not see how Aaron Mate is contributing to this issue -- and I certainly do not see how his perspective is extremist or polarized.
I listen to a lot of perspectives, especially on the subject of Israel ever since October 7th. While I also seek to preserve nuance and critical analysis, I do not believe that Hopkins' manner of addressing the discourse in this post contributes positively to that cause.
Valid points. It's Israel itself that -- overtly -- equates the two. Leading to anti-Semitism (another misnomer as there are many "brands" of Semites) by default.
If "anti-Zionists" weren't harassing and attacking random Jews on the street and on college campuses, your argument would be more persuasive. In modern parlance, "Zionist" is 100% a synonym for "Jew." As for lobbying ... Israel barely cracks the top 10 in terms of money spent to curry favor with US lawmakers. China spends over twice as much money lobbying the US government, and Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and United Arab Emirates all outspend Israel. From Israel's point of view, it would be suicidal to allow their enemies to lobby while they did nothing.
https://www.opensecrets.org/fara
Alex Fox: "harassing and attacking random Jews on the street and on college campuses" - oh, you mean using words to tell people that they have got the world wrong is now "harassing and attacking"?
If words are violence, what do you then call the actual killing of tens of thousands of Palestinians?
I am afraid you are fighting for a lost cause. The world has turned it's back to Israel, and rightly so.
Amen.
No - Zionism does NOT equal Judaism. Many proud Jewish people, secular and religious (including many in the Rabbinical community) are staunchly anti-Zionist.
Look into Rabbi Dovid Feldman, or Miko Peled, or Max Blumenthal.
then why are the VAST MAJORITY of zionists christian??? biden is a zionist. 99% of all democrats and republicans are zionists
It goes back to the Scofield (sp?) Bible which misinformed the Evangelical movement in the US, and the massive evangelical Zionist, churches in the US with their dubious funding.
Thomas Getman
https://youtu.be/ItWWZu2geSE
Historical Roots of Christian Zionism
https://youtu.be/FPGlgz1zC-4?si=89lRvAQEgNEo-Yod
If there is an argument I was making, it revolves around the false equivalence that I repeatedly addressed. But then what is your counter-argument? "No, Zionism equates to Judaism because of 'modern parlance'?
I reject the assertion that Zionism = Judaism. That appears to be the root of many issues, especially in socio-political discourse. If you actually object to this false equivalence, since you see it in "modern parlance", you would reject it too.
Also it isn't about the amount of money spent on lobbying (but those stats are certainly interesting so I appreciate you sharing those). It's about the actual legislative power the lobby holds. Which you'd know about if you had read these articles or any other literature that documents the power of the Israel lobby.
Which Jew, converted Ashkenazi & Sephardic descendants of Ham? Or the genuine Hebraic descended from Shem?
The touted equivalence is usually with Jewishness, not with Judaism.
Here’s a guy [1] who professes to perceive equivalence:
“I am a Jew; therefore, I am a Zionist. Attack me as a Zionist, you attack me as a Jew. I write this not to insulate Israel from criticism but to assert the centrality of a Jewish state to my Jewish identity. … I will loudly proclaim my Jewishness and my Zionism, both of which are inseparable from each other, and from my progressive values.”
His working definition is:
“Zionism is Jewish self-determination, and independence from the authority and yoke of regimes that mostly tried to annihilate Jews for millennia. Zionism is the right and the necessity of the Jewish people to survive, and it is the need for a Jewish state to ensure that very survival.”
I really cannot see what logic he followed to achieve his conclusion that being Jewish is identical to being an advocate of “Jewish self-determination”, etc., and it actually looks that he’s fallen into an infinite recursion.
Nevertheless, taking his Zionism definition, being anti-Zionist clearly would be hostile to Jewish people (which many would then want to call “anti-semitic”).
So, the clarity that is often missing is that the thing to which billions of people are objecting is, strictly, “Palestine Invasional Zionism”. I can see, of course, why this is invariably shortened to “Zionism”; the current, variously recognised, State of Israel is the only place, since Biblical times, where most of us are aware of “Jewish self-determination” having been pursued. When Berger (as quoted above) refers to “a Jewish state”, it is the only extant place that is brought to our minds.
1. https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/community/articles/progressive-except-palestine
That's a good amendment; Jewishness is more accurate than Judaism for this phenomenon. It's more all-encompassing for describing the "Jewish identity" that I've been learning more about since October 7th.
I read the article. I'm going to read some of the other articles that Berger references, but I'm almost shocked by how clearly the cognitive dissonance is put on display here. It's a horrifying fusion between liberal identity politics and Zionist identity politics which is why it is very revealing. Thank you for the share!
I cannot keep myself from suspecting disingenuity.
I fear that disingenuousness and deliberate lies (even by omission) would be preferable to what is emerging in my ongoing study into all of this.
In fact, this article is the most direct reflection I've seen so far of the destructive thing that seemingly resulted from the merging of Critical Theory (Frankfurt school) and Zionist/Jewish identity politics.
The author is saying "I've put in the work for liberal identity politics, just look at my record! I've also put in the work for my Zionist identity politics, just look at my record!" And they seem to almost insinuate that they are a rare breed of a "true" Zionist progressive.
However, the reality is that both these forms of identity politics have been used in very destructive ways -- especially on the Zionism front.
I can see how Berger may be a victim of this gross identity politics abomination that is currently undergoing some sort of metamorphosis since October 7th. But I'm sure that Berger will think of my words as anti-Semitic even though there isn't a single trace of anti-Semitism.
I can see I probably misjudged Berger. I’d seen him billed as “Associate Professor Emeritus”, but it seems he’s really just been a medical doctor, who worked, in some capacity, in a “Department of Family and Community Medicine”. So, he’d probably never tried to take a serious approach to thinking.
However, that wasn’t a Facebook post, but something accepted for publication in an “online magazine” with a staff of dozens.
When Berger writes, “I write this not to insulate Israel from criticism”, is he not aware that insulating Israel is his purpose? Or, does he mean simply that he does not wish to shield Israel from such criticism he regards as fair to level at it?
If he was not being disingenuous, it is a poor reflection on his intelligence that he either failed to explore what he really meant, or considered it not worth explaining to the readership.
The compass of criticism of Israel includes criticising it for existing, but this would be in contravention of the unimpeachable legitimacy of Israel, as the Zionist realisation of a “Jewish state”, which he appears to assert.
Similarly, but more subtly, Israel might be criticised for not having exactly the characteristics we may envisage of a free Palestine. This, presumably, would include rejection of its instantiation of “[specifically] Jewish self-determination”, and, again, that seems to be an anathema to Berger.
I do still struggle to accept that he has been incapable of appreciating that Zionism, as he took the trouble to define it, and the current State of Israel, are discrete, though obviously related, concepts, and that the former has an existence independent of the latter.
I think he showed his colours in expecting us to accept that Israel is not “an apartheid, or white supremacist, state” on the basis that his “reading and personal experience in Israel stand in contradiction to these claims”, but he had some chutzpah to raise that prospect in proximity to “Jewish self-determination” without exploring the correspondence.
"Similarly, but more subtly, Israel might be criticised for not having exactly the characteristics we may envisage of a free Palestine. This, presumably, would include rejection of its instantiation of “[specifically] Jewish self-determination”, and, again, that seems to be an anathema to Berger."
This is the core which I was getting at in my original comment; the deeply embedded false equivalence between Zionism and the Jewish identity more generally (as Berger states: "Zionism is Jewish self-determination") appears to be the root of all cognitive dissonance, intellectual dishonesty, and fallacious thinking.
I think this is much more than just immunizing Israel from actual criticism; the framework for reality altogether is altered. Criticism aimed at Israel, according to Berger's views in this article, can only be limited to a specific domain since the all-defining view that "Zionism is Jewish self-determination" seems to be viewed as an unquestionable truth -- notice how it is never even remotely suggested that this is a subjective position -- hence there being no possible valid criticism against this core assertion.
"I think he showed his colours in expecting us to accept that Israel is not “an apartheid, or white supremacist, state” on the basis that his “reading and personal experience in Israel stand in contradiction to these claims”, but he had some chutzpah to raise that prospect in proximity to “Jewish self-determination” without exploring the correspondence."
You raise great points about the exploration of Jewish self-determination. I am highly skeptical of the Israel lobby because I've been critically observed the aftermath of October 7th, but that's only more reason for me to seek out constructive dialogue as well as the opinions of critical thinkers on the pro-Israel side. Your point reminds me that I would have absolutely welcomed a genuine breakdown of the all-encompassing statement that "Zionism is Jewish self-determination," for instance. It's a real shame that such sentiments are essentially never substantiated with anything other than pathos in today's public discourse.
It's entirely possible that Berger's true thoughts are buried beneath the pathos -- and that there might be logos beneath what appears to be blatant demagoguery. Unfortunately, that is entirely left to the imagination with an article such as this one.
Lastly, I want to add that Berger also betrays his own intellectuality not only through the lack of actual substance and depth in this article, but also due to the mathematical quantitative résumé he presents. Berger lists several liberal identity politics causes that he has publicly advocated, as well as some "pro-Palestinian" causes, which is implicitly supposed to "prove" his allegiance and integrity as a "progressive".
I suppose this is the where any semblance of actual reason may be found in this article. The reason why I fail to see how reason is genuinely at work here, however, is that the entire political binary is not just crumbling for everyone to see today -- the binary has been falling apart for a very long time. The human mind will rationalize, by itself, in order to understand the situation they are in. The less we understand the situation and all of its context, the more we are forced to rely on rationalization. The line between rationalization and reason may be paper-thin in our individual microcosm and conscious experience, but that same line becomes magnified and amplified, making it much easier to spot (which also comes with the risk of exaggerated perception) when it is given an expressed and/or publicized form in the macrocosm -- in other words, the public domain.
I think not.
https://sonar21.com/revisiting-the-october-7-hamas-attack-did-israel-kill-most-of-the-israeli-civilians/
That's an opinion post from two months after the event (while investigations were still ongoing), quoting unnamed sources and zero actual evidence. Is it possible that, since Hamas fighters wear civilian clothes and (despite the brown victim/white oppressor narrative) physically resemble Israelis, the Israeli military forces accidentally fired on their own people? Yes, that is certainly possible. Historically, "friendly fire" accounts for up to 20% of all warzone casualties, so it would be odd if there were zero such tragic incidents. HOWEVER, to take isolated and unverified anecdotes of mistaken identity and use them to "prove" that October 7th was perpetrated by the victims is both rhetorically unsound and morally reprehensible.
morally reprehensible is what's going on in all ostensible camps of this killing zone. The cabal are extremely good at manipulation and control of the narrative, at setting up and funding extremists to do the dirty work they want done, at spinning and selling stories that have zero truth in them, at creating and funding "protest" groups that shit stir, at creating bot farms to do the same, and at executing false flags.
Every single person on earth should assume this to be the case in EVERY single conflict on earth. Nothing pushed is to be assumed to be true at this point.
https://rumble.com/v4m56ii-october-7-was-an-inside-job-by-john-hankey.html?mref=wrdkl&mrefc=2
Johnson is a retired CIA analyst with good sources so I believe him.
My understanding is that Israeli forces kept Gaza under tight surveillance.
It's therefore hard to credit the notion that whatever happened was a surprise to Israel.
It is well known that Israeli intelligence collected extensive information about the planned attack. However, the Israeli government did not think Hamas was capable of executing the plan. This is identical to what's happening in the United States today, where our government blithely ignores the extreme danger of Islamic terror attacks facilitated by our open border.
From 10/7 to the "extreme danger of Islamic terror attacks facilitated by our open border."
That's some serious goal post movement.
He also literally claims that what is happening on the US border is "identical". Have to wonder how long it's been since he consulted a dictionary.
He's right, though. We all know that the Patriot Act is in the past now; the War on Terror is totally over and was a complete success; and the US government hasn't been harassing its citizens for years -- oh, wait
Alex Fox appears to be a serial liar, and pretty racist too. Antony Lowenstein does a good job of listing the support Israel has given countless dictators, fascists and various other scum all over the world since its founding. Deniers of that country's nature are a dime a dozen, and getting pretty boring too.
Perhaps one good thing can come out of Israel's savage campaign against Palestinians if it causes Americans to see that Israel is no friend of America.
Americans might have seen that when Israel attacked the USS Liberty in 1967 except that the US and Israel lied about the incident.
Goal post movement? I'm just pointing out that the exact same thing could happen here. There have been Senate hearings going back 20 years discussing the way Islamic extremist groups, including Hamas, have established relationships with South American cartels and adversarial governments, such as Venezuela. If you think jihadists don't have active cells and arms caches all around this country, you're kidding yourself. They are just waiting for the right time to act.
It's actually the Chinese and not the Islamic terrorists who are the fastest-growing migrant group encountered by the US Border Patrol.
We're still all digesting and debating this but there is clearly a lot of factual and irrefutable evidence enclosed such as articles and videos from esteemed sources. Legal documents that have also been filed
https://archive.org/details/israel-was-behind-the-attacks-of-october-7.-october-7-was-an-inside-job-by-john-hankey
And you can’t see that there might be a reason for that? An occupied person having every right to fight the occupier and if you think Israel is innocent of that then take a look at what’s happening in the West Bank where there is no Hamas. Does Israel have the right to steal Palestinian home and land? Imagine what Israel would do if Palestinians had the power to steal Israel’s land. Or yours.
There is ALWAYS two sides to a story.
Zionists: "There's no place like someone else's home."
And the truth is usually hidden somewhere in between.
Is it? When God is fighting Satan do you think the truth lies somewhere in between?
I'm not suggesting that this is necessarily a case of God vs Satan, but wanted to illustrate the somewhat platitudinous nature of your assertion.
God vs. Satan is a matter of faith, and faith is not about truth.
What, pray tell, is "platitudinous" about my statement—in the context of "there is ALWAYS two sides to a story"? The "believer" (or even the biased one) BELIEVES one story or the other. The "seeker" SEARCHES for the truth in one story or the other or somewhere in between.
There are always two sides to a story. The truth does not *always* lie somewhere in between. Sometimes one party is lying and the other is telling the truth. I used Satan and God in my example simply because they are archetypes.
Alex, you are a breath of fresh air here. I shared your brilliant Substack on cognitive dissonance and Palestinian terrorists with my subscribers.
I am curious why CJ finally decided to confront his more radical readers at this time. Despite his previously misguided commentary, where he voiced support for an illusory "more moderate" group of Palestinians and advocated for a ceasefire and Israeli withdrawal to stem innocent civilian casualties, it seems even he could no longer tolerate the Jew-hating extremists (the ones who call themselves "anti-Zionists") that make up a substantial majority of his readership. I say, "At last!"
CJ's views seem to align with those of Vera Shalev, the medical freedom activist and Holocaust survivor who recently joined the chorus of self-hating Jews labeling Israel's military response as "genocidal." I am republishing my views on Shalev and wonder if you have an opinion on her recent unfortunate comments.
It is disheartening when Vera Shalev, a significant figure in the medical freedom movement, allows remnants of leftism to infiltrate her thinking. She might as well align with the woke, vaccinated, mask-wearing Marxist college students who idolize Hamas. Remarkably, throughout her entire interview, she fails to address the glaringly obvious issue.
Ms. Shalev claims that the Israeli government colluded with Hamas to permit the October 7th massacre. This revives the tired claim that Israel supported Hamas by returning Gaza to the Palestinians, a decision now seen as a grave misjudgment. It was naively believed that Hamas could prove more progressive than the radical PLO at the time. However, this is now ancient history.
Today, Ms. Shalev confuses hubris for collusion. Why did military leaders ignore all the warning signs? It’s improbable that a country which, only a few years earlier, traded hundreds of terrorist prisoners for one soldier has now become allies with their arch-enemy. The reality is likely that these commanders were so confident in their military superiority over Hamas that they became complacent, caught off-guard by their own arrogance, neglecting other perspectives.
The fundamental issue remains: Hamas is a terrorist organization, a point Ms. Shalev refuses to discuss. While she acknowledges the goodness of most Palestinians, she overlooks their lack of control over a government committed to Israel’s destruction—as stated in their charter.
Ms. Shalev labels the situation a "genocide," basing her assertions on statistics from Hamas. What should Israel do? Withdraw and allow Hamas to regroup for another attack like the one on October 7th? And what about the hostages? Disregarding them is not an option; rescuing at least four was a significant achievement, preventing further torture by their captors.
In all conflicts, civilian casualties are tragic but sometimes unavoidable, particularly when the enemy uses civilians as shields.
Ms. Shalev uniquely criticizes Netanyahu as one of the worst offenders of medical tyranny, ignoring that similar policies are widespread globally. She incorrectly compares the restrictions during the COVID-19 pandemic to the situation in Gaza. The two are incomparable. In many countries, people faced tough choices regarding vaccination and employment, but some resisted. In contrast, Hamas represents an existential threat with the explicit aim to kill.
While I respect Ms. Shalev, her overly idealistic worldview is difficult to comprehend.
The only solution to terrorism: Listen to the hit song "KILL THE BEAST." Subscribe to Turfseer's Newsletter: https://turfseer.substack.com/p/kill-the-beast
Thanks, Turfseer! Usually, I steer clear of the comments section, but in this case, I got sucked into a pointless argument. I appreciate your kind words, and agree with your position. Unfortunately, the Israeli military has a history of underestimating the vitriolic hatred it faces from the Arab nations surrounding it - an error which, when compounded with the hubris of Israeli leaders who place undue confidence in their own technological superiority, led to being surprised by the 1973 Yom Kippur war, and again on 10/7.
https://mwi.westpoint.edu/what-went-wrong-three-hypotheses-on-israels-massive-intelligence-failure/
Who sre you talking about? Vera Sharav?
Thanks for asking, arturo! I don't think he really knows who and what exactly he is giving a lecture about.
“What should Israel do? Withdraw and allow Hamas to regroup for another attack like the one on October 7th?”
If the Israelis withdraw to Europe, Russia, the Americas, and whencesoever they came, there couldn’t be any possibility of another such attack (false flag, hoax, or authentic).
Great. Just be defenseless again so you can repeat the Holocaust.
No.
It's not by being defenceless that the Israeli regime is able to reprise the holocaust.
You suggest the Jews return to Europe so they can be murdered again.
Next, you continue the false charge of genocide. It was false yesterday. It was false today. it will be false tomorrow.
However, the charge, as manufactured as any slur of the Nazis, is part of the propaganda efforts of Hamas and its patrons. You repeat it, because, like your Nazi ancestors back in the 1930s, who told the Jews "Get out of Europe, go to Palestine." You once again want to be master of life and death over the Jews. "Get out of Palestine, come back to Europe. So we may kill you again."
No.
You're not getting that chance.
Enjoy the Muslims you imported to replace us.
If they're so wonderful, you'll do just fine.
You appear to be clinically insane.
Yes, I said that those who have, or whose recent ancestors had, moved into Palestine as part of the Zionist project ought to return to where they formerly lived. I called for no murders, though, and any reasonable assessment would conclude that these people would be considerably more safe in the places I mentioned than by continuing to hold out, on stolen land, against its understandably aggrieved legitimate occupants.
Let’s not get bogged down with the technicalities of “genocide”. The term is quite a recent addition to the English lexicon, anyway. Instead, we can simply agree that the “Israeli” regime is entirely wilfully perpetrating a mass slaughter of the impoverished, largely defenceless, people it has long imprisoned in the Gaza Strip, and, starting more recently, to a not immaterial extent doing similarly in the West Bank, also.
What evidence do you have for my ancestors having been “Nazi”? From my vantage point, it appears a delusional claim for you to have made.
I have never been the master of anyone’s life or death, and have not the slightest desire to become so. You are floundering in the effluent of your own diseased imagination.
I have imported no moslems, but anyone examining recent mass immigration into Europe should give some consideration to what this lady says, here: https://archive.org/details/barbara_lerner_spectre_on_jews_multiculturalism_and_europe
I'm insane? You're the one that spread lies.
1) Land was not "stolen." It was won in defensive war launched by the Arabs. You do not get the territory you lost, in a war you started, so you have a better shot of success the second time around.
2) "Let’s not get bogged down with the technicalities of “genocide”."
Uh no. I disagree. You are going to throw one of the most slanderous, indendiary charges available in the modern world, then you better dot your I's and cross your T's and not say "Uh, maybe it's not really genocide but close enough."
“Israeli” regime is entirely wilfully perpetrating a mass slaughter of the impoverished, largely defenceless, people it has long imprisoned in the Gaza Strip"
Also false.
Hamas deliberately mixes military targets with civilian targets in order to inflate the death of the people they are supposedly fighting on behalf, to maximize casualties to use in propaganda.
If they didn't want deaths they could:
A) Free the hostages
B) Protect civilians within the tunnels that Hamas dug for military use.
C) Not instigate the rape, murder, kidnapping of 1200 Israelis which any country in the world would have responded to, and responded hard.
Further, Israel provides:
A) Aid to the people they're supposedly "genociding" to use your insulting and false and inflamatory term.
B) Provides warning and evacuation calls for targeted areas. (You may scoff. But the people Hamas murders do not receive such warnings, other than wide scale "We will kill all the jews" type strong arming.
C) Has achieved the lowest ratio of civilian to militant death of any urban conflict in history, beyond America's in Fallujah to take one example.
Of course, even if Israel does some truly ingenious methodology to target terrorists and not civilians -- by, say, selling pagers to members of a terrorist organization that can be detonated only on said terrorist to minimize damage to other civilians -- you would give no credit. You would STILL call it genocide. But let's not get too strict about the term, like you said. Absurdity.
"What evidence do you have for my ancestors having been “Nazi”? From my vantage point, it appears a delusional claim for you to have made."
Oh, let's not get too caught up on the term "Nazi." That's how you argue, right?
You support the genocide of the Jewish people. You do today. And had you lived in the 1930s, you would have done it then too.
"I have never been the master of anyone’s life or death, and have not the slightest desire to become so. You are floundering in the effluent of your own diseased imagination."
Ahhh, so you never had to make hard decisions. You get to stand on the sidelines and sneer and mock and insult and decide who should live and who should die while having no skin in the game -- but then protest your innocence because you are powerless.
How about you stop showing off your ignorance?
If the Arabs launched a “defensive war”, someone must have been threatening them. Perhaps you’d care to suggest who you think that was?
It’s a distinctly odd telling of history that holds there was already any kind of war in progress when the Zionist terrorists commenced invading Palestine.
“maybe it's not really genocide but close enough” – You are confusing me, a real life person, with the products of your imagination. I’ve retracted nothing. All I said was that the applicability of one specific word is not worth arguing about. If you wish to cleave to something in particular in what “genocide” means to you, I’ll leave you to it.
Asserting something to be false does not make it so.
The inmates of a concentration camp cannot raise a formal army and construct well-defended military bases. Were that possible, we’d have seen it done in the 1930s/40s, when many of the most ingenious, and personally resourceful, people were imprisoned in such camps.
Those fighting an occupation must necessarily do so from within the general population. We saw that in Vichy France, with the French Resistance (and also the Jewish Resistance).
“Free the hostages” – I do not think that, on 6 October 2023, there were any hostages of the Gazans, but Palestinians in Gaza, and the West Bank, were having their lives truncated, and blighted, by the occupiers. So, I do not see how your suggestion could be any kind of solution.
“Protect civilians within the tunnels that Hamas dug for military use.” – You’d like to banish the legitimate people of Palestine underground. Cute.
“Not instigate the rape, murder, kidnapping of 1200 Israelis” – You are, at best, referring to much repeated allegations about the events of roughly 24 hours, fifteen months ago, not to anything currently occurring, except with the “Israelis” in the active role. If you want to see rape, visit Sde Teiman. Some of the MKs would probably treat you to a guided tour.
“Israel provides: A) Aid” – The Zionist invaders have taken everything the Palestinians had. Your excuses are pathetic.
“warning and evacuation calls for targeted areas” – The regime’s targets have nowhere safe to go, and it slaughters them while they flee, in their refugee camps, and even while they try to collect some flour. Your words vividly reveal your abject lack of humanity.
“the lowest ratio of civilian to militant death of any urban conflict in history” – The regime is murdering its prisoners. The fact people turn to violence to try to repel their oppressors does not make them legitimate targets. Would you have been applauding the putting down of the Sonderkommandos?
I did not say the pager (etc.) attack was genocide. Your imagination is running away with you, again.
If that operation was real, it was unnecessary, further, illustration of the utter moral depravity of the terrorist-founded regime you applaud. “Ingenious”, indeed!
“You support the genocide of the Jewish people” – You are a pathetic excuse for a human being, but I shall never extrapolate from you to any arbitrary group of which you might hope to be considered a member.
I am not going to review, for you, what decisions I’ve made in the course of my life, but what I told you about being “master of life and death” is true, as is all else I’ve said to you. If you’ve a need to assuage a vestigial conscience with claims of having been forced into a decision, that is purely an issue for you, and any judgement I might hazard, upon imperfect information, would be entirely irrelevant. Moreover, I believe that it is not what you did that is now important, but what you learn from it (though it doesn’t really look like this distinction is going to help you).
Your suggestion, if that is what it was, that solely men of violence should comment on issues of morality, is disturbed.
I am not powerless. It is correct that I cannot, directly, achieve very much at all, but one thing you really should not imagine is that the millions of us, countering your anti-human, twisted, delusions with plain fact and straightforward morality, are not going to prevail.
It does not escape me that you can type ludicrous nonsense all day long. You are already overdue on the substantiation of your allegation about my “Nazi ancestors back in the 1930s”. I shall now pay no heed to anything else you say (instruction of libel lawyers excepted) until you have made good on it.
Well you start your lies right at the beginning. "Poor defenseless Gazans.
Right. Except Hamas was armed to the teeth by Iran, including Jaws of life to break into the security rooms of Israeli civilians.
You conveniently leave that part out.
Then you go on to describe them as inmates of Concentration camp.
Right! Because Auschwitz had 5 star hotels, didn't it? No? Ahh, but there are in Gaza!
You mock the idea of Gazans being able to use Hamas tunnels to take shelter in.
But you're indifferent to when Israelis do hide in bomb shelters when Hamas and Hezbollah shoot rockets at them.
Yeah, those rockets that came from those "unarmed" Gazans.
That's enough. Three tremendous lies and I haven't gotten into the bulk of your murderous hatred of Jews and your twisting of historical fact to create a fictional story for your outrage.
I've never seen such madness, evil or mendacity.
False flag and unlike 9/11 and the lead up to the Iraq war all these events happened in Mordor itself so the truth is almost impossible to find. All funded and armed by the Great Satan itself.
Because we know what kind of cock sucking dogs Israel is...
POS
https://youtu.be/1pubgQLJ3C0
Well that certainly helped me understand it. Thank you.
You remind me of a line from Dashiell Hammett: ”The sign over the bar read: ‘Only the finest, genuine pre-war Scotch whiskey served here.’ I was counting the lies in that sentence, and got to three, with promise of more, when I had to go.”
did you leave out the Hannibal directive where the Zionists themselves would massacre their own in order to keep from having to release the Palestinian hostages that they have in their political prisons.