Thanks, Lena, it is always so edifying, hearing from you. Oh, and, you might want to get in touch with the Hamas guys quoted in that Jeremy Scahill article I linked to above and edify them regarding their October 7 strategy. I'm sure they will be just as grateful for your knowledge and wisdom as I am.
Thanks, Lena, it is always so edifying, hearing from you. Oh, and, you might want to get in touch with the Hamas guys quoted in that Jeremy Scahill article I linked to above and edify them regarding their October 7 strategy. I'm sure they will be just as grateful for your knowledge and wisdom as I am.
I hope I get your point. My point is: how on earth can an uprising against violent oppression be sucessfull without being allowed to use violence itself? Jeremy Scahill's article shows just that. 'Tyrannenmord' needs a murder and a murderer.
Not nice, no. But if I only focus on the murder of the tyrant, what am I doing? Audiatur et altera pars.
No, you don't get the point. Try reading the column you are replying to again and responding to what I'm actually lampooning, i.e., the "Hamas didn't mass murder anyone because the Israelis 'Hanniballed' them all" nonsense.
Chris, this was not "my wisdom" but the words of Hakim Siddiqi. Whoever does not see where justice and injustice are, in the case of Zionism (plus brutal illegal besettlement of non-Israeli land) and Palestine, whoever denies that the Resistance HAS ALREADY TRIED all other means before taking up arms on October 7, whoever denies everything that Israelis were doing to Palestinians since January 2023, murdering hundreds of civilians - is simply a deeply dishonest and morally unhealthy person. Regarding Hamas and their objectives - here is Hamas press conference on Twitter, right after October 7, where they clearly explain why they did it and what for. I do not need Scahill. https://x.com/Aldanmarki/status/1712738101108384185
Also, I will provide some background. If you prefer to deny that Gaza prison itself was made of people who were expelled and confined to this "strip" in 1948 and the years after, you do not need any information. Because you cannot speak at all in this case. But for those who might not know the background:
Israel does not need peace. It needs a card-blanche to expand the Lebensraum and annex more and more.
тмЗя╕П
Between the Second Intifada in 2000 until the settlers moved out of Gaza in 2005, 3352 Palestinians (681 children) and 995 Israelis (118 children) were killed.
July and November of 2001 - Israel breaks ceasefires with Hamas and Fatah
January and July of 2002 - Israel breaks ceasefires with Hamas and Fatah
June and July of 2003 - Israel breaks ceasefires with Hamas and assassinates ceasefire negotiator Ismail Abu Shanab, described as тАЬone of the most powerful voices for peaceтАЭ.
2003 - Gaza concentration camp is in the works
тАЬтАжseal the territory off from the outside world, and simply shoot anyone who tries to break outтАЭ
тАФ Arnon Soffer, the DEMOGRAPHER, the Mastermind behind the creation of Gaza concentration camp
January 2004 - a proposed тАЬ10 year ceasefireтАЭ was broken with the bulldozing of 40 homes in Rafah and the killing of 5 civilians including an 11 year old boy.
January 2005 to June 2006 - Despite the usual bad faith actions of the Israelis in Gaza, Hamas would maintain an internationally recognized unilateral ceasefire for close to EIGHTEEN MONTHS.
Summer 2005 - Shortly after the disengagement, 6 months before Hamas were elected in to power and while Fatah was still the ruler of Gaza, Israel and the US had violated the understandings made to ensure the border crossings into Gaza remained open after Jewish settlers left.
тАЬEvery aspect of that agreement was abrogated,тАЭ
тАФ US Special Envoy John Wolfensohn
2005 - The already in place siege, multiple provocations and assassinations where 183 Palestinians, including 49 children died, didnтАЩt break the unilateral ceasefire.
Ehud Barak, IsraelтАЩs defence minister, and his deputy Matan VilnaiтАжwere plotting an invasion of Gaza throughout theтАжceasefire with HamasтАжthey ignored every diplomatic overture from them, including offers of indefinite truces.
January 2006 - 50 per cent unemployment and a collapsed economy likely lead to the Hamas election.
April 2006 - Hamas stopped the use of suicide bombers that had killed 300 Israelis previously.
June 2006 - 18 month long ceasefire shattered with the massacre of an entire family on Gaza beach and the targeting of Hamas leaders. This, without taking in to account the killings of 20 Palestinians in the weeks before.
тАЬOperation Summer RainsтАЭ (June) - 240 Palestinians killed, 197 of the total were civilians, 40 of those were children and 12 were women.
November 2006 - тАЬOperation Autumn CloudsтАЭ - 80 Palestinians killed
665 Palestinians in total are killed this year. And 23 Israelis. A nearly 30 to 1 ratio.
2007 - Blockade tightened: The blockade was described as тАЬlike an appointment with a dietitian. The Palestinians will get a lot thinner, but wonтАЩt die.тАЭ
тАФ Dov Weisglass, Ariel SharonтАЩs right hand man in Washington
384 Palestinians die, including 52 children. And 13 Israelis.
A nearly 30 to 1 ratio.
June - November 2008 - Hamas ceasefire. Rocket fire reduced by 97%. 153 violations of the cease-fire by Israel, and 36 Palestinians in Gaza were killed. The economic siege of Gaza continued.
November, 2008- Israel assassinates 6 Hamas members to destroy ceasefire
27 December 2008 - 18 January 2009 - Operation тАЬCast LeadтАЭ.
Between 1200 and 1400 Palestinians were killed. 35 Israelis are killed in 2008 and just 3 in 2009.
2009-2012 - Sporadic skirmishes occurred but these skirmishes still resulted in 274 Palestinian deaths, including 37 children. And just 24 Israeli fatalities.
March 9, 2012 - Israel violates an Egyptian-brokered ceasefire and assassinates the head of the Gaza-based Popular Resistance Committees. 24 Palestinians killed.
70% of rockets/mortars were fired from Gaza during three distinct periods of escalation in March, June, and late October of 2012. Each of these escalations correlates with an assassination/killing, incursion, or other Israeli military action.
IDF Gaza commander recognized HamasтАЩ ceasefire efforts but still boasted of plans for a ground invasion.
10 - 21 November - Operation тАЬPillar of DefenseтАЭ resulted in the deaths of 174 Palestinians. And 112 Palestinians died that same year during тАЬmore peaceful timesтАЭ.
November 14, 2012 - two days after a ceasefire is implemented, Israel assassinates the leader of HamasтАЩ military wing, Ahmed Jabari, described by Israeli peace activists as тАЬтАжone of the more practical actors on the Hamas sideтАЭ, after a week in which at least six Palestinian civilians are killed.
He was assassinated just after receiving a draft for a long term ceasefire from Egyptian intelligence to open contact with Israeli intelligence.
November 2012 to July 2014 (TWENTY MONTHS) - Hamas again maintained a prolonged unilateral ceasefire despite Israel immediately and continually breaking it on a daily basis throughout that time and tightening the siege even more. Other groups sporadically responded to Israeli provocations.
Throughout 2013 there were a total of тАЬ32 rockets and 12 mortarsтАЭ allegedly fired from Gaza. A 98% drop in numbers from the year before. None were fired by Hamas.
38 Palestinians would be killed in 2013, the lowest number since 2000, but still higher than the number of Israelis killed by rockets fired from Gaza over TEN YEARS.
January 1 to June 12, 2014 - Israelis killed 30 Palestinians, 4 of them children.
June 12, 2014 - Three Israeli settlers allegedly kidnapped. They had been killed that same day but the Israeli government, police and intelligence hid this fact, even from the families, to whip up a hate frenzy.
13 Palestinians would be murdered by Israel after the kidnapping of the Israeli settlers and BEFORE the first Hamas launched rockets on June 28
9 MORE Palestinians would die BEFORE тАЬOperation Protective EdgeтАЭ was launched on July 8
July 8, 2014 - тАЬOperation Protective EdgeтАЭ - 2271 Palestinians were slaughtered, including 562 children.
August 2014 to 2022 - another 1,265 Palestinians were killed during тАЬpeacefulтАЭ times, including the 2018 Great March of Return protests where 266 people were killed, including 50 children, and almost 30,000 injured in one year. 122 had legs amputated and 14 their arms.
(Al Jazeera, 30 Mar 2019)
And this year, 2023, before October 7, 213 Palestinians, including 44 children were killed.
Thanks, Lena, it is always so edifying, hearing from you. Oh, and, you might want to get in touch with the Hamas guys quoted in that Jeremy Scahill article I linked to above and edify them regarding their October 7 strategy. I'm sure they will be just as grateful for your knowledge and wisdom as I am.
I hope I get your point. My point is: how on earth can an uprising against violent oppression be sucessfull without being allowed to use violence itself? Jeremy Scahill's article shows just that. 'Tyrannenmord' needs a murder and a murderer.
Not nice, no. But if I only focus on the murder of the tyrant, what am I doing? Audiatur et altera pars.
No, you don't get the point. Try reading the column you are replying to again and responding to what I'm actually lampooning, i.e., the "Hamas didn't mass murder anyone because the Israelis 'Hanniballed' them all" nonsense.
Chris, this was not "my wisdom" but the words of Hakim Siddiqi. Whoever does not see where justice and injustice are, in the case of Zionism (plus brutal illegal besettlement of non-Israeli land) and Palestine, whoever denies that the Resistance HAS ALREADY TRIED all other means before taking up arms on October 7, whoever denies everything that Israelis were doing to Palestinians since January 2023, murdering hundreds of civilians - is simply a deeply dishonest and morally unhealthy person. Regarding Hamas and their objectives - here is Hamas press conference on Twitter, right after October 7, where they clearly explain why they did it and what for. I do not need Scahill. https://x.com/Aldanmarki/status/1712738101108384185
Also, I will provide some background. If you prefer to deny that Gaza prison itself was made of people who were expelled and confined to this "strip" in 1948 and the years after, you do not need any information. Because you cannot speak at all in this case. But for those who might not know the background:
Israel does not need peace. It needs a card-blanche to expand the Lebensraum and annex more and more.
тмЗя╕П
Between the Second Intifada in 2000 until the settlers moved out of Gaza in 2005, 3352 Palestinians (681 children) and 995 Israelis (118 children) were killed.
July and November of 2001 - Israel breaks ceasefires with Hamas and Fatah
January and July of 2002 - Israel breaks ceasefires with Hamas and Fatah
June and July of 2003 - Israel breaks ceasefires with Hamas and assassinates ceasefire negotiator Ismail Abu Shanab, described as тАЬone of the most powerful voices for peaceтАЭ.
2003 - Gaza concentration camp is in the works
тАЬтАжseal the territory off from the outside world, and simply shoot anyone who tries to break outтАЭ
тАФ Arnon Soffer, the DEMOGRAPHER, the Mastermind behind the creation of Gaza concentration camp
January 2004 - a proposed тАЬ10 year ceasefireтАЭ was broken with the bulldozing of 40 homes in Rafah and the killing of 5 civilians including an 11 year old boy.
January 2005 to June 2006 - Despite the usual bad faith actions of the Israelis in Gaza, Hamas would maintain an internationally recognized unilateral ceasefire for close to EIGHTEEN MONTHS.
Summer 2005 - Shortly after the disengagement, 6 months before Hamas were elected in to power and while Fatah was still the ruler of Gaza, Israel and the US had violated the understandings made to ensure the border crossings into Gaza remained open after Jewish settlers left.
тАЬEvery aspect of that agreement was abrogated,тАЭ
тАФ US Special Envoy John Wolfensohn
2005 - The already in place siege, multiple provocations and assassinations where 183 Palestinians, including 49 children died, didnтАЩt break the unilateral ceasefire.
Ehud Barak, IsraelтАЩs defence minister, and his deputy Matan VilnaiтАжwere plotting an invasion of Gaza throughout theтАжceasefire with HamasтАжthey ignored every diplomatic overture from them, including offers of indefinite truces.
January 2006 - 50 per cent unemployment and a collapsed economy likely lead to the Hamas election.
April 2006 - Hamas stopped the use of suicide bombers that had killed 300 Israelis previously.
June 2006 - 18 month long ceasefire shattered with the massacre of an entire family on Gaza beach and the targeting of Hamas leaders. This, without taking in to account the killings of 20 Palestinians in the weeks before.
тАЬOperation Summer RainsтАЭ (June) - 240 Palestinians killed, 197 of the total were civilians, 40 of those were children and 12 were women.
November 2006 - тАЬOperation Autumn CloudsтАЭ - 80 Palestinians killed
665 Palestinians in total are killed this year. And 23 Israelis. A nearly 30 to 1 ratio.
2007 - Blockade tightened: The blockade was described as тАЬlike an appointment with a dietitian. The Palestinians will get a lot thinner, but wonтАЩt die.тАЭ
тАФ Dov Weisglass, Ariel SharonтАЩs right hand man in Washington
384 Palestinians die, including 52 children. And 13 Israelis.
A nearly 30 to 1 ratio.
June - November 2008 - Hamas ceasefire. Rocket fire reduced by 97%. 153 violations of the cease-fire by Israel, and 36 Palestinians in Gaza were killed. The economic siege of Gaza continued.
November, 2008- Israel assassinates 6 Hamas members to destroy ceasefire
27 December 2008 - 18 January 2009 - Operation тАЬCast LeadтАЭ.
Between 1200 and 1400 Palestinians were killed. 35 Israelis are killed in 2008 and just 3 in 2009.
2009-2012 - Sporadic skirmishes occurred but these skirmishes still resulted in 274 Palestinian deaths, including 37 children. And just 24 Israeli fatalities.
March 9, 2012 - Israel violates an Egyptian-brokered ceasefire and assassinates the head of the Gaza-based Popular Resistance Committees. 24 Palestinians killed.
70% of rockets/mortars were fired from Gaza during three distinct periods of escalation in March, June, and late October of 2012. Each of these escalations correlates with an assassination/killing, incursion, or other Israeli military action.
IDF Gaza commander recognized HamasтАЩ ceasefire efforts but still boasted of plans for a ground invasion.
10 - 21 November - Operation тАЬPillar of DefenseтАЭ resulted in the deaths of 174 Palestinians. And 112 Palestinians died that same year during тАЬmore peaceful timesтАЭ.
November 14, 2012 - two days after a ceasefire is implemented, Israel assassinates the leader of HamasтАЩ military wing, Ahmed Jabari, described by Israeli peace activists as тАЬтАжone of the more practical actors on the Hamas sideтАЭ, after a week in which at least six Palestinian civilians are killed.
He was assassinated just after receiving a draft for a long term ceasefire from Egyptian intelligence to open contact with Israeli intelligence.
November 2012 to July 2014 (TWENTY MONTHS) - Hamas again maintained a prolonged unilateral ceasefire despite Israel immediately and continually breaking it on a daily basis throughout that time and tightening the siege even more. Other groups sporadically responded to Israeli provocations.
Throughout 2013 there were a total of тАЬ32 rockets and 12 mortarsтАЭ allegedly fired from Gaza. A 98% drop in numbers from the year before. None were fired by Hamas.
38 Palestinians would be killed in 2013, the lowest number since 2000, but still higher than the number of Israelis killed by rockets fired from Gaza over TEN YEARS.
January 1 to June 12, 2014 - Israelis killed 30 Palestinians, 4 of them children.
June 12, 2014 - Three Israeli settlers allegedly kidnapped. They had been killed that same day but the Israeli government, police and intelligence hid this fact, even from the families, to whip up a hate frenzy.
13 Palestinians would be murdered by Israel after the kidnapping of the Israeli settlers and BEFORE the first Hamas launched rockets on June 28
9 MORE Palestinians would die BEFORE тАЬOperation Protective EdgeтАЭ was launched on July 8
July 8, 2014 - тАЬOperation Protective EdgeтАЭ - 2271 Palestinians were slaughtered, including 562 children.
August 2014 to 2022 - another 1,265 Palestinians were killed during тАЬpeacefulтАЭ times, including the 2018 Great March of Return protests where 266 people were killed, including 50 children, and almost 30,000 injured in one year. 122 had legs amputated and 14 their arms.
(Al Jazeera, 30 Mar 2019)
And this year, 2023, before October 7, 213 Palestinians, including 44 children were killed.
(BтАЩtselem)
THIS is why we are where we are today.