“The point is, the IDF murdered everyone, or, the Zionists killed all the victims (or most, or many, many of the victims) on October 7OK, maybe Hamas helped a bit … "
. . .
You're using a Straw Man argument when you claim that the “10/7 Truthers” allege “the Zionists killed all the victims (or most, or many, many of the victims) on October…
“The point is, the IDF murdered everyone, or, the Zionists killed all the victims (or most, or many, many of the victims) on October 7OK, maybe Hamas helped a bit … "
. . .
You're using a Straw Man argument when you claim that the “10/7 Truthers” allege “the Zionists killed all the victims (or most, or many, many of the victims) on October 7...” Aaron Mate, and his colleague Max Blumenthal at “The Grayzone” (who, along with the “Electronic Intifada” first reported this story 8 months ago) never said “all” or “most” of the victims were killed by the IDF. I don't think they've given a number. Perhaps they said “many”?
“Another order given at 11:22 A.M. … no vehicle would be allowed to return to Gaza... "Everyone knew by then that such vehicles could be carrying kidnapped civilians or soldiers," … everyone knew what it meant to not let any vehicles return to Gaza .... what the fate of some of the kidnapped people would be. ... a procedure known in the army as the "Hannibal procedure. ... Haaretz does not know whether or how many civilians and soldiers were hit due to these procedures .... many of the kidnapped people were at risk (Haaretz, 7/07/24). https://archive.is/iAgIy#selection-1645.0-1645.502
Many, maybe 100 of those cars, appears to have been destroyed by Hellfire missiles or cannon fire from Apache helicopters. I was a firefighter to 30 years. I've never seen a car that got all twisted and mangled just from burning up. The body of the car stays intact. Assume each vehicle held 2 hostages. That would mean the IDF ordered the death of about about 200 dead hostages just in the vehicles. More in the kibbutz communities in the homes hit by tank fire.
Initially, Israel claimed 1,400 were murdered on 10/7. Later, the number was reduced to about 1,100. About 200-300 were actually Gazans that were badly burned. I would guess an equal number were Israeli, so that would fit with my estimate.
To put things in perspective, 1,100 Israeli's were killed, about 400 were soldiers/police/paramility. So, about 700 civilians killed that day. IF 200 - 300 were purposefully killed by the IDF using the Hannibal Directive; that's about 30 - 40% of the total civilians. I think that would qualify as “many, many” victims.
So, how many Israeli civilians were murdered by the IDF? “The IDF spokesman responded … the IDF has begun conducting internal investigations of what transpired on October 7 … When these investigations are concluded, the results will be presented to the public with transparency." Yeah, sure. Not holding my breath.
P.S. " Many" IDF soldiers were also ordered killed on 10/7 using the Hannibal Directive. See the Harretz article for more details.
UPDATE: Three hours ago, "Gilgamechit" asked: “would be fair if you responded to the [7/07/24] Haaretz report itself, at least as a preamble to what is otherwise a strawman argument against the likes of Aaron Mate ...”
CJ Hopkins replied: I thought it was a good article.
After writing my previous comments, I realized that C.J. was largely writing satire and trying to ridicule the propaganda of "both sides"? I now feel like I was playing the "straight man" in a comedy sketch.
"Instead of today's satire, C.J. wrote, "... I’m going to drop the sarcasm for now, and say a few things for the record. Maybe just to get this out of my system." Gives you a better idea of where he's coming from."
“The point is, the IDF murdered everyone, or, the Zionists killed all the victims (or most, or many, many of the victims) on October 7OK, maybe Hamas helped a bit … "
. . .
You're using a Straw Man argument when you claim that the “10/7 Truthers” allege “the Zionists killed all the victims (or most, or many, many of the victims) on October 7...” Aaron Mate, and his colleague Max Blumenthal at “The Grayzone” (who, along with the “Electronic Intifada” first reported this story 8 months ago) never said “all” or “most” of the victims were killed by the IDF. I don't think they've given a number. Perhaps they said “many”?
“Another order given at 11:22 A.M. … no vehicle would be allowed to return to Gaza... "Everyone knew by then that such vehicles could be carrying kidnapped civilians or soldiers," … everyone knew what it meant to not let any vehicles return to Gaza .... what the fate of some of the kidnapped people would be. ... a procedure known in the army as the "Hannibal procedure. ... Haaretz does not know whether or how many civilians and soldiers were hit due to these procedures .... many of the kidnapped people were at risk (Haaretz, 7/07/24). https://archive.is/iAgIy#selection-1645.0-1645.502
I recall reading that IDF have admitted to killing 70 civilians, and another 13 at a kibbutz house by tank fire. I think that's a low estimate. Just watch the Associated Press video showing many twisted cars (later literally buried!). “Israeli rave survivors return to look for cars after Oct. 7 Hamas attack”Associated Press https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=92&v=P1T51_iroHo&embeds_referring_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fsonar21.com%2F&source_ve_path=Mjg2NjY&feature=emb_logo
Many, maybe 100 of those cars, appears to have been destroyed by Hellfire missiles or cannon fire from Apache helicopters. I was a firefighter to 30 years. I've never seen a car that got all twisted and mangled just from burning up. The body of the car stays intact. Assume each vehicle held 2 hostages. That would mean the IDF ordered the death of about about 200 dead hostages just in the vehicles. More in the kibbutz communities in the homes hit by tank fire.
Initially, Israel claimed 1,400 were murdered on 10/7. Later, the number was reduced to about 1,100. About 200-300 were actually Gazans that were badly burned. I would guess an equal number were Israeli, so that would fit with my estimate.
To put things in perspective, 1,100 Israeli's were killed, about 400 were soldiers/police/paramility. So, about 700 civilians killed that day. IF 200 - 300 were purposefully killed by the IDF using the Hannibal Directive; that's about 30 - 40% of the total civilians. I think that would qualify as “many, many” victims.
So, how many Israeli civilians were murdered by the IDF? “The IDF spokesman responded … the IDF has begun conducting internal investigations of what transpired on October 7 … When these investigations are concluded, the results will be presented to the public with transparency." Yeah, sure. Not holding my breath.
P.S. " Many" IDF soldiers were also ordered killed on 10/7 using the Hannibal Directive. See the Harretz article for more details.
Anything to take culpability away from the savages of Hamas. An obsession really. Fuck all of you.
As they strike you...
UPDATE: Three hours ago, "Gilgamechit" asked: “would be fair if you responded to the [7/07/24] Haaretz report itself, at least as a preamble to what is otherwise a strawman argument against the likes of Aaron Mate ...”
CJ Hopkins replied: I thought it was a good article.
After writing my previous comments, I realized that C.J. was largely writing satire and trying to ridicule the propaganda of "both sides"? I now feel like I was playing the "straight man" in a comedy sketch.
Except the comedy sketch wasn't funny
This piece was a satire, angry, and heavy on sarcasm. Last night, I read CJ's 10/15/23 post "Israel's 9/11" https://cjhopkins.substack.com/p/israels-911
"Instead of today's satire, C.J. wrote, "... I’m going to drop the sarcasm for now, and say a few things for the record. Maybe just to get this out of my system." Gives you a better idea of where he's coming from."